Breaking news from the whale wars

[MauiScubaSteve]

None of the last paragraph is proven one way or another. The topic is not dolphins but even if they can use telepathy, are super smart and super awesome, if people want to eat them and it is done sustainably, then I see no issue with this. It would be hypocritical for me to say otherwise given I like eating other tasty meat products as well as wearing animal products like leather.

Alright, now I will start near the end of your post. I believe you have called out people you claimed knew nothing of the things they said in their lack of debate and yet only a few posts later here you are talking $h!t about something you obviously have no knowledge of. Dolphins have shown the ability to identify pregnancy less than a week after insemination, and I have a leather jacket with fur lining that is leather made from ranched non-reproductive steers which were also eaten and New Zealand possum fur that is an ecological pest!

If this is not part of the topic then why did you type the things I quoted in order to prove your point on the topic?

If man had not disrupted the balance of the ocean eco system, was not the harvest of each eaten species in harmony with all the eaters. Look at all the ecosystems of the planet. Without modern man they all seem to be in balance. The apex predators take the weak, sick and old; there is a sustainable cycle. Some not so evolved human societies have worked in harmony with nature, but industrialized man, who's medicine saves many that natural selection would not, over harvests and destroys the balance.

I am firmly convinced that we shall become one of the greatest whaling nations in the world. The whaling grounds round Korea and Japan offer unlimited possibilities, and should stocks of whales, contrary to expectations, fail in those areas, we have the Sea of Okhotsk and the Berring Sea to the north and we are aware of the great treasure houses to the south. The day will come when we shall hear one morning that whales have been caught in the Arctic and in the evening that whales are being hunted in the Antarctic. [15]

Juro Oka - The father of modern Japanese whaling, 1910

Whaling in Japan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Japan has a history of destroying the balance. If they could whale sustainable they would still be able to whale in their own waters. They stripped their own waters and now seek/have to whale elsewhere. They also contribute to the crash of the Tuna stock as you have pointed out. Why should their past and current failures lead to us letting them have their way? Isn't that a very similar question you ask over and over about the Sea Shepherd's?

 

[Sas]

Alright, now I will start near the end of your post. I believe you have called out people you claimed knew nothing of the things they said in their lack of debate and yet only a few posts later here you are talking $h!t about something you obviously have no knowledge of. Dolphins have shown the ability to identify pregnancy less than a week after insemination, and I have a leather jacket with fur lining that is leather made from ranched non-reproductive steers which were also eaten and New Zealand possum fur that is an ecological pest!


If this is not part of the topic then why did you type the things I quoted in order to prove your point on the topic?

I know little about dolphins but a lot of your post was about things that are suspected, not proven. I don't think it was relevant to any points I made but I figured I'd respond anyway to again point out that I really don't think intelligence is what should determine whether or not humans can eat something.

If man had not disrupted the balance of the ocean eco system, was not the harvest of each eaten species in harmony with all the eaters. Look at all the ecosystems of the planet. Without modern man they all seem to be in balance. The apex predators take the weak, sick and old; there is a sustainable cycle. Some not so evolved human societies have worked in harmony with nature, but industrialized man, who's medicine saves many that natural selection would not, over harvests and destroys the balance.

Mate, there have been many many many creatures go extinct before humans were even around. There were huge upheavals to ecosystems and so on, and there are likely to be many more both human and non-human caused. There is no such thing as 'balance' - it's a myth. I think we should try not to mess up things for ourselves, but other animals?? I think that the only reason endangered species should be protected, is because we do not know the ramifications on US of them dying out, not just for the sake of it.

Japan has a history of destroying the balance. If they could whale sustainable they would still be able to whale in their own waters. They stripped their own waters and now seek/have to whale elsewhere. They also contribute to the crash of the Tuna stock as you have pointed out. Why should their past and current failures lead to us letting them have their way? Isn't that a very similar question you ask over and over about the Sea Shepherd's?

HA, Japan and every other country in the world. I don't think Japan is blameless, quite the opposite, but that current action against them is only going to make it worse. Sea Shepherd has to understand that militancy doesn't work in every case and that there is a lot to be said for diplomacy.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

From the looks of the posts by the most active participants in this thread, reading the entire Wikipedia pages on Sea Shepherds and whaling in Japan would be like post graduate gene therapy study for a professional football player (you chose the hemisphere).

 

[drdaddy]

I know little about dolphins but a lot of your post was about things that are suspected, not proven. I don't think it was relevant to any points I made but I figured I'd respond anyway to again point out that I really don't think intelligence is what should determine whether or not humans can eat something.

Mate, there have been many many many creatures go extinct before humans were even around. There were huge upheavals to ecosystems and so on, and there are likely to be many more both human and non-human caused. There is no such thing as 'balance' - it's a myth. I think we should try not to mess up things for ourselves, but other animals?? I think that the only reason endangered species should be protected, is because we do not know the ramifications on US of them dying out, not just for the sake of it.

HA, Japan and every other country in the world. I don't think Japan is blameless, quite the opposite, but that current action against them is only going to make it worse. Sea Shepherd has to understand that militancy doesn't work in every case and that there is a lot to be said for diplomacy.

I just wanted to thank you for your balanced and intelligent reply (and past/ongoing replies) to what is an obvious very emotional (irrational) subject for many.
Thank you,
drdaddy

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Disasters happen. Mass extinctions happen. Modern man is a mass extinction disaster. An apex predator is part of the ecosystem. Modern man destroys ecosystems. Your opinion is that the Sea Shepherds are not and will not be successful, but Japan has killed less whales than they planned for many years now and the whalers ramming of the Sea Shepherd boat is very likely to have an impact on the legality of whaling going forward.

Just imagine what will happen to the pro whalers side of things when word of this thread gets out. If the rest of the pro whalers in the world are as nut job as the pro whalers on SB have shown themselves to be, pro whalers are not to be trusted with the future of anything, much less the future of whales.

 

[Sas]

Disasters happen. Mass extinctions happen. Modern man is a mass extinction disaster. An apex predator is part of the ecosystem. Modern man destroys ecosystems. Your opinion that the Sea Shepherds are not and will not be successful, but Japan has killed less whales than they planned for many years now and the whalers ramming of the Sea Shepherd boat is very likely to have an impact on the legality of whaling going forward.

Short term only, what about long term whale deaths? Sea Shepherd has disrupted things but they will never be able to do so for good.

Just imagine what will happen to the pro whalers side of things when word of this thread gets out. If the rest of the pro whalers in the world are as nut job as the pro whalers on SB have shown themselves to be, pro whalers are not to be trusted with the future of anything, much less the future of whales.

Personally I don't find being called a 'nut job' offensive given what normal people are like, so thanks

 

[wardric]

Disasters happen. Mass extinctions happen. Modern man is a mass extinction disaster. An apex predator is part of the ecosystem. Modern man destroys ecosystems. Your opinion that the Sea Shepherds are not and will not be successful, but Japan has killed less whales than they planned for many years now and the whalers ramming of the Sea Shepherd boat is very likely to have an impact on the legality of whaling going forward.

Just imagine what will happen to the pro whalers side of things when word of this thread gets out. If the rest of the pro whalers in the world are as nut job as the pro whalers on SB have shown themselves to be, pro whalers are not to be trusted with the future of anything, much less the future of whales.

yep and when the media focus is on a distracting show from stupid ecoterrorists saving a few dozen whales, thousand die from pollution and destruction of habitat and no one gives a sh.. aboot that. SS are only getting the focus off from the real problem.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Short term only, what about long term whale deaths? Sea Shepherd has disrupted things but they will never be able to do so for good.

That is just your opinion. I am of the opinion that since the Japanese continue to put Humpback, Fin and Sperm whales on the list of intended take that they are not just whaling because SS is protesting. I personally think Japan is much more likely to stop whaling in Antarctica because of SS and Animal Planet.

If the disputed nature of regulatory powers in the Southern Ocean results in more of the same from the rest of the World, Sea Shepherd and Animal Planet are the only defenders the Arctic whales have fighting for them, and plenty of whale huggers will finance the ongoing campaign.

 

[mike_s]

back to useful information on the argument....

here is the crew of the Ady Gil with a "projectile Launcher" that they were using to launch projectiles onto the whalers vessel.

Here is a shot of them with a laser that they were using to shine in the whalers eye to cause blindness (even if it was just temp). But I'd be pretty pissed if another boat came up on me and tried to ruin my vision with a laser.

c

 

[Sas]

That is just your opinion. I am of the opinion that since the Japanese continue to put Humpback, Fin and Sperm whales on the list of intended take that they are not just whaling because SS is protesting. I personally think Japan is much more likely to stop whaling in Antarctica because of SS and Animal Planet.

If the disputed nature of regulatory powers in the Southern Ocean results in more of the same from the rest of the World, Sea Shepherd and Animal Planet are the only defenders the Arctic whales have fighting for them, and plenty of whale huggers will finance the ongoing campaign.

We will have to agree to disagree then about how effective SS is in achieving its aim.