Putting Another Dollar In - taking more classes

[TexasKaren68]

I guess that's all well and good if you know somebody willing to take you under their wing and mentor you, which would mean basically acting as an instructor on dives without being paid. I'm brand new to diving and so far have only been out with paid instructors. I have a few friends who dive but none of them live anywhere close to me and most are "just vacation divers". I have a few friends who are very experienced, including one Master Scuba Diver with 10 years experience, and one instructor, but they live on the East coast and aren't coming to Texas to dive any time soon.

I'm not the most outgoing person in the world and feel a bit funny going out with a big group to dive (my LDS has outings most weekends) when I don't have a buddy and everyone else does. At least if I'm paying for a class I don't feel like I'm holding someone back from diving as deep/long as they want to.

 

[k ellis]

Awe you should never feel that way. Maybe one day you can come to Athens when I am there on a trip and you can dive with me then. I am being honest when I say new divers are my passion. I would turn down an experienced diver in a heart beat to dive with a new diver because they provide the best memories for me. Watching them develop into a skilled diver and watching them struggle and with each struggle an improvement made is a reward too.

I have so many times taken new divers under my wing and sometimes the dive itself would go awry such as they use up their air in record time and its ok with me. If I did 60 feet for 10 minutes and had to abort because my buddy sucked down a whole tank then oh well. At least when we get to the surface they can discuss it with me and maybe learn something from a discussion that helps them improve their sac rate.

And you better not feel funny going out with our group if you were there Ill take your dive boot off and I got a power drill with a feather duster in it tailor made for tickling feet

 

[Downing]

Hey Karen, I just wanted to toss in a post of support. Take all the classes you want for whatever reason(s) you want. The scuba tent's plenty big enough for divers to choose the path that's right for them.

Btw, you don't have to be outgoing to go on a group dive without a buddy. I've done it plenty of times. Just show up and the rest will take care of itself. Admittedly, it did feel a little weird the first couple of times, especially the first time, but less so each time after that. But I've always been welcomed and ended up having a blast. Now I don't even think about it. Divers are a friendly and helpful bunch, and everyone was new to this once upon a time

 

[redacted]

Seems to translate as: "I did plenty of dives that were beyond my training and experience...and I didn't die. Therefore, I must be competant to complete dives of that type".

There's a logic flaw in that.

Not experiencing an incident/emergency doesn't necessarily mean you have the skills to avoid disaster. It just means that a problem didn't arise yet.

Is the logic flaw really that different than "I did that with an instructor and a group of other divers once (see my card) , therefore I must be competent to complete dives of that type"?

The key is to expand your experience base in small, controlled increments and get help when you need it.

 

[TSandM]

I think there is a role for mentorship, and a role for classes.

I learned to use a scooter by myself -- I bought one, went out a couple of times for some specific practice dives with friends who already had scooters, and watched the DVD. I've done okay with my scooter, but I have yet to face an "emergency" with it.

My husband took the scooter class. The instructor discussed management of a variety of situations one might run into with a scooter, and also went through scooter maintenance and simple repair.

Both of us can use a scooter. Peter knows more about his. I wish I'd been able to take the class -- of course, over time, I've learned most of that stuff (quite a bit of it second-hand from Peter), but taking the class would have been a shortcut to what I know.

Both approaches work -- I do like getting the knowledge IV, though; it's quicker. Good classes are well worth the money and time you spend on them; lousy classes taught by uninformed, unmotivated instructors, to minimum standards, are not. The hard part is knowing which kind of class you are going to get.

 

[-hh]

DevonDiver and TS&M pretty much told it all. As DevonD said, there could just be a very comprehensive OW course (like there used to be?- so I've read). How much would this cost, as opposed to taking all these specialties?

It would cost less than the sum of all of the Specialities individually. Over the past few years, it appears that some Shops/Instructors are doing a lesser form of this on their own, as I've met some recently-certified divers who accepted a "Package Deal" of OW+AOW+Nitrox in one combined training class.

Even with this expansion, I think that it was still probably only half of what I had in my first OW class many moons ago ... not only did they not have Buddy Breathing or Emergency Ascents, they also didn't get tables-based staged decompression homework, or pool work that included bailouts and a harassment session (both of which are fundamentally confidence builders).

I think there is a role for mentorship, and a role for classes...Both approaches work -- I do like getting the knowledge IV, though; it's quicker. Good classes are well worth the money and time you spend on them; lousy classes taught by uninformed, unmotivated instructors, to minimum standards, are not. The hard part is knowing which kind of class you are going to get.

Well said. The biggest reason why the "Put Another Dollar In" slang exists is because there's a lot of classes that are a poor value because they really don't teach you all that much for what you're paying for. Some of it is certainly due to the instructor at times, but others are simply quite ...slender... in actual content.

Plus, there is a minor problem in the Industry in that some Outfits don't care if a customer is qualified for a dive: they only want to know if you have the right "Card" for it. This is in no small part due to insurance/liability concerns, along with how some divers will exaggerate their diving qualifications. This happens most frequently with Nitrox and AOW, so I'd recommend finding a good class for these to get your "Ticket Punched". FWIW, when I formalized my Nitrox card, I handed the instructor a detailed list of the errors in the textbook he was using <g>.


-hh

 

[scubafanatic]

I'd say the only 2 cards you need as a 'recreational diver' (need means dive ops may not let you dive without seeing them) are AOW and Basic Nitrox, they don't care if you've also got 'Rescue' or 'Night diver' or 'Boat diver' or 'Salt Water diver' or whatever.....I can understand if you're basically using all these classes as excuses to 'rent a buddy' and log more dive hrs/experience, that's cool, but as a recreational diver you will learn 99.9% of the scuba information you will ever know via real world diving under assorted good, bad, and ugly conditions....not from opening a can or reading a book or viewing a video. Dive ops couldn't care less what cards you show up with (aside from the Nitrox and/or AOW cards), they will secretly 'interview/study' you (they will check out your gear, your skill at getting geared up, and most especially your real world diving skills), and they will let you do (or not do) certain dives based on their real world assessment of you 'NOW' (not on how many cards you own or what propaganda your log book may claim). If you pass their 'observational' tests (meaning you appear to actually have a clue) they will cut you a lot of slack and let you do your thing.

 

[diveprof]

Though I dont doubt a great number of dive instructors have experienced a real life emergency I know that there are those out there who by the mere luck of the draw have not experienced one. Would taking a course from an instructor who has never experienced an actual emergency be better training then taking a mentor whos dove thousands of dives and experienced hundreds of emergencies be better?

I have myself experienced many emergencies in life many in the water..

What an interesting response. Personally I would not want to dive with someone who has has experienced hundreds of emergencies. To me that screams lack of training and poor dive preparation, planning and conduct. The object is not to have emergencies - training, mentoring (with the right mentor - maybe not one who has experienced hundreds of emergencies), and skills practice can help in this area.

 

[k ellis]

Personaly DiveProf I would rather not dive with them either. It was an expression though in that being carded as an instructor does not guarantee your going to be a better example then someone whos dove for years and years. Its like police officers. Some praise us some hate us but the simple fact is that alot of people solve home burglaries on their own and do what an officer is not able to do. They put a burglar off the streets permanently.

It was an expression that a person should have the fundamentals taught in open water however where a person goes from there is trully their own decision. Find a good dive buddy and save thousands of dollars. I know divers who never went beyond open water and they are far better then a lot of instructors I know.

 

[Bob DBF]

What an interesting response. Personally I would not want to dive with someone who has has experienced hundreds of emergencies. To me that screams lack of training and poor dive preparation, planning and conduct. The object is not to have emergencies - training, mentoring (with the right mentor - maybe not one who has experienced hundreds of emergencies), and skills practice can help in this area.

Just because you experienced an emergency does not mean that you caused it. Also some people just have a low threshold of emergency.

I'm more interested in the survival rate of the buddy in making my decision.


Bob
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I may be old, but I&#8217;m not dead yet.