Drift Diving scares me.

[TSandM]

I empathize with you entirely, shadowcat! My first couple of drift dives unnerved me a lot -- I didn't like being out of control and having to allow the ocean to push me where it wanted, and I seriously feared separation from my buddies. (To be honest with you, high current dives aren't my favorite, even today, although I handle them better.)

I think what BubbleTrubble wrote is largely true. Especially for someone who finds buoyancy control challenging, more time in the water to practice is really the key. That can be time in a sufficiently deep pool, or in a lake -- or even time in benign salt water. I do not think that diving off Cozumel or the Caribbean mainland is benign, though. What you want is somewhere where you have little current, a hard bottom, and good viz. This is the reputation of Bonaire, for example, and it was also a lot of our experience in the Virgin Islands. Molokini Crater off Maui is like that, too; sheltered from current and generally having fairly calm water and good viz.

Even in those conditions, you might want to spend a day with an instructor or DM, to work on your buoyancy skills until you feel more comfortable with them, and things are a bit more predictable. Challenging shaky dive skills by adding strong currents is a hard lump to swallow, especially if you are already nervous because of a prior bad experience.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

Bubbletrubble, how will having this person "hire a private DM to watch over you" while on actual dives be any less productive than hiring a "good instructor/DM" in the pool? In both cases, he'd be doing something to enhance his safety, his fun, his skill level.

A pool presents a confined water training environment. It's safer than a drift dive in the open ocean off of a boat. In a pool, there are fewer variables outside the control of the instructor/DM -- no current, boats whizzing by, unpredictable floor topography, depths beyond recreational diving, colorful/unpredictable UW critters, other divers zooming by, etc. The student can focus on skills training. There is ample time to practice mask clearing, determine proper weighting, and get a feel for neutral buoyancy. On an OW drift dive, a private DM/instructor will almost certainly feel pressured to rush the student through skills training so that he/she can get to the "fun diving."

I mentioned pools and freshwater lakes because, having visited the Dallas/Fort Worth area, I'm aware that the only options for nearby scuba practice are pools and local freshwater lakes. My thinking is this: Why not invest a modest amount of time by practicing dive skills locally prior to a vacation? Yes, it takes some effort, but the comfort gained will pay off in a more relaxed dive experience while on vacation.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with hiring a private DM/Instructor for OW dives. However, I don't see it as an equally good alternative to taking a scuba refresher course with a good DM/instructor prior to the vacation.

bubbletrubble - just curious - where are you getting your information?

Personal experience.

How many students/new/infrequent divers have you trained?

I haven't formally trained any divers. I'm not a certified DM or instructor. I have never represented myself here on ScubaBoard as anything more than a recreational OW diver. Although I don't hold any professional diving certifications, I have dived with many novices and I have shared space on dive boats with vacation divers who presented a danger to themselves and others. My previous post was an attempt to keep the OP healthy and happy on vacation. Nothing more.

FWIW, I don't own a scuba business. I suppose that's why I have the freedom to suggest a non-diving alternative. No financial conflict of interest.

That being said, rather than attempting to discount my recommendations by pointing to my lack of dive pro qualifications, why not offer up a differing opinion?

To clarify, I have nothing against vacation divers at all. I think they can dive fairly safely given the proper investment in preparation.

Your post reads as if you are an authority on the subject (providing inaccurate information), yet according to your profile, you hold an AOW certification.

I'm not an authority on the subject. I never said that I was. The OP is free to take/leave any of the advice that I offered.

Some people do not have the opportunity to dive except when they are on vacation - and in fact, vacation divers account for a VERY LARGE percentage of the diving population. I agree, a private DM is often necessary for the first day or possibly more - but your over generalization is erroneous and you really don't have the experience or training to make the kind of statements you are making!

If vacation divers comprise such a large percentage of the diving population, then shouldn't dive pros be recommending that such divers obtain scuba practice prior to the dive vacation? What kind of experience or training should I have in order to make these comments? I think you are misinterpreting my comments as vacation diver bashing. That's not at all what I'm saying.

I have seen newly certified OW divers that are FAR BETTER divers than many DM's and Instructors I've seen in the water.

Me, too. There's a simple explanation for this. Newly certified OW divers have just exited formal training, so the material should be rather fresh in their heads. Having trained with a good instructor, such novice divers are a joy to dive with. DMs/Instructors with poor skills are probably just out-of-practice divers (I hope). As you know, the title of "DM" or "Instructor" can apply to a person who earned the certification a long time ago but who hasn't been in the water recently. I would think that anyone who went to the trouble of getting a professional certification would have the sense to practice scuba skills prior to conducting OW dives.

I've also seen divers with hundreds of dives bounce around the reef and blow through their air faster than those who dive more than once a year.

I've seen a few experienced divers (100+ dives) who demonstrate pretty poor buoyancy control. I'd like to think they are just out of practice, but it's certainly possible that they never learned how to control buoyancy in the first place. Sad.

Many factors influence gas consumption. Being comfortable in the water is just one of them.
A higher rate of gas consumption alone is not always an indicator that the diver is out-of-practice or inexperienced. Some people have bigger lungs. For whatever reason (feeling cold?), some people choose to kick a lot during a dive. Current can vary with depth, and it's easy to see how spending significant time at a depth where high current is present might lead to a high gas consumption rate.

Based on reading some of your posts, I would agree with you that you do appear to be a control freak.

I'm a pretty risk-averse person. I tend to educate myself on something before I jump in with both feet. In any sports endeavor, I value properly directed practice.
In a leisure-time activity which carries risk of mortality/morbidity, such as scuba diving, I prefer to assume personal responsibility for my own safety. Others may choose to approach the sport in a different way.

 

[Brendon]

Hey Christi,
Im not normally prompted to defend someone else here on the board... Bubbletrouble did do a good job backing up his/her statement so I dont need to add to what has already been stated. I will say this, "I have met, run into, been around, heard of etc... A huge population of instructors with less time in the water or dives then Bubbletrouble. You ever heard of the phrase, they learned to teach before they learned to dive...? Taking advice from a seasoned diver can be far more useful then paying a DM or Instructor especially when experiance is lacking. So dont discount what another diver has to say just because they are not an instructor. Thats coming from someone who is an instructor..."

 

[markmantei]

Well, to defend Christi, she can be expected to defend her business on this board as well. While I don't disagree with everything Bubbletrouble said, the suggestion that this person not dive on their vacation was, while an option, extreme. The recognition of the issue, and the fact that the OP bothered to open a thread tells me she is willing to take some action to address her lack of skills that contributed to her feelings of discomfort the last time around.

Shadowcat, like most things worth doing, you will get more enjoyment out of diving the more comfortable you are with your skills and abilities, and this takes practice. I go through this with my wife both in diving and downhill skiing, you are spending so much time just trying to perform the necessary skills that you are unable to enjoy what is going on around you. That said, you don't need to be a scuba geek (coming from a self-confessed one here) to have a safe and enjoyable vacation, you have already taken the first step by recognizing that you have some skills that need work.

I'm surprised in your last trip that in a group of 4 (a small group) your "dive buddy" was not the DM, and he was unable to keep a close eye on you, I'm sorry that your last trip was not a positive experience. Mirroring what has been said by others, a little practice whether formal or informal (if you have the resources in a good mentor) would do wonders. At minimum some practice time in a local dive tank, but even better also one of the local lakes that bubbletrouble has suggested. Also, find a dive operation wherever you go that runs smaller boats with fewer divers (definitly 8 or less), and speak with them prior to leaving (or via email) and communicate your concerns, ensuring that they can accomodate your needs.

Christi maybe you can chime in here, what would a typcial dive day for someone such as shadowcat entail? Are there sites that are suitable for newer divers that are routinely done for first dives of the day? My concern would be around the 80+ ft first dives that I understand are common. Shadowcat you may be looking at an afternoon dive each day.

As far as drift diving is concerned. While there are certainly complications that don't exist in a lake, it can also be significantly "lazier" diving, as you shouldn't really need to fin to propel yourself throughout the dive, just to position yourself and let the current do the work. Good buddy skills are a must, and hiring that private DM until you are more comfortable would definitely help.

 

[Brendon]

Well, to defend Christi, she can be expected to defend her business on this board as well. While I don't disagree with everything Bubbletrouble said, the suggestion that this person not dive on their vacation was, while an option, extreme. The recognition of the issue, and the fact that the OP bothered to open a thread tells me she is willing to take some action to address her lack of skills that contributed to her feelings of discomfort the last time around.

Well, what you just said made sense. On the other hand, IMO if you can tally your dives on 1 hand annually you will never be more them a "Passport diver"... Though I wouldnt say find some other sport to get envolved in. I would anticipate a yearly review before getting in the water. We get better with practice and repetition, a hand full of dives yearly barely qualifies as getting warmed up. I always promote diving wether its everday or once every five years. Advantages and disadvantages vary with frequency of diving. Now see, I didnt have to discount your opinion when you defended christi, just because I see you've listed that your under 100 dives. Common sense goes along away and it shows

 

[Karibelle]

A pool presents a confined water training environment. It's safer than a drift dive in the open ocean off of a boat.

No disagreement. That's why I also suggested getting into the pool from time to time. Seems less extreme that the idea that if you can't do that for whatever reason, then simply don't dive on your vacations, which is what you seemed to be suggesting.

On an OW drift dive, a private DM/instructor will almost certainly feel pressured to rush the student through skills training so that he/she can get to the "fun diving."

Not having any experience as a private DM/instructor makes you uniquely unqualified to make this statement, wouldn't you say? As a working instructor, I find that often times, ALL MY JOB is is to hand-hold, practice mask clearing, do buoyancy skills, and generally be a supportive force in the water with an already certified diver who just wanted a little extra help. I realize that in the perfect world, everyone would have emerged from their OW course as a fully formed excellent diver. In the real world, people aren't like that (sure, there are some amazing exceptions) and lots and lots of divers need more. And they need that "more" even after they have their certification card.

I've given this a lot of thought, after reading your statement, and have to say I have never felt pressured to rush, so we could get to the fun. NOT RUSHING is what makes it fun. Making good divers then making good divers better is what makes it fun, both for them AND for me.

And I do feel qualified to make those statements. I'm curious, given that you make a point of noting that your posts are based on "personal experience" - is that YOUR experience? Have you used, encountered, worked with, hung out with instructors who model the behaviour you speak of above?

kari

 

[spc751]

I can comment on this debate from my experience last year. I had not been diving for some time and took the two hour pool refresher from my LDS. I felt very good about my skills in the pool and I thought was ready for diving.
I did a two tank boat dive (drift diving) with a small shop in Playa del Carmen. There were only three divers and a DM on the trip. The trip was well organized and I felt very good about the dives. Then I did one boat dive with the dive shop in my resort. This shop was not organized at all and I realized how poor my skills really were.
I think that a pool refresher on its own is not enough. I feel that a refresher should be pool and one or two open water dives. Most PADI shops offer this option and I highly recommend it.
I did 20 dives over the summer in the cold, murky lakes at home and I much more qualified for diving this winter.

 

[Karibelle]

One of my first "assignments" when I became a DM (here in Cozumel) was to deal with two women who were coming on a trip with a group from Minnesota. They were older ladies, larger ladies, new divers who were having descending issues and who wanted to join their friends on this dive trip, but didn't want to hold their friends up with their "issues" - and they thought they had lots of issues. I dove with these gals for five days. They struggled, we laughed, they got better as the week went on. I suffered a barotrauma from my up-and-down-up-and-down in addressing their descent and buoyancy issues. They (thankfully) took a couple of days off. On their last day we ended up just the three of us on a boat as they'd switched out their morning dive for an afternoon.We went to Yucab. We dropped in and ended up at a large patch of coral just before the reef proper. They loved it and didn't go anywhere, enthralled by the fish they were seeing. When we surfaced the boat captain asked me what was wrong? Why hadn't we gone down the reef? Nothing wrong, el capitan... these girls were just having fun.

That was several years ago, many even. These ladies are coming to see me and dive with me in March, and it will be the fifth year that they've done so. They call themselves Kari's Dive Divas. They're now fully formed, fully functional, wonderful divers who have a fantastic time in the water, with me and with each other.

They're not my only examples of divers or students who benefited A LOT from a little extra TLC. And there are lots of instructors out there willing to give it. I don't think I'm the lone ranger; I'm not the only one! There are lots of caring, patient instructors who have nothing but time for a student who truly needs their help.

Those are tonight's two cents.

kari

 

[Brendon]

Not having any experience as a private DM/instructor makes you uniquely unqualified to make this statement, wouldn't you say? As a working instructor, I find that often times, ALL MY JOB is is to hand-hold, practice mask clearing, do buoyancy skills, and generally be a supportive force in the water with an already certified diver who just wanted a little extra help. I realize that in the perfect world, everyone would have emerged from their OW course as a fully formed excellent diver. In the real world, people aren't like that (sure, there are some amazing exceptions) and lots and lots of divers need more. And they need that "more" even after they have their certification card.

Lets think about that for a second based on what you have said. In a perfect world divers would emerge from an OW course as excellent divers. That would also have to include excellent instructors . In the "real world" people arent like that. People being students and if the student can fall short of the perfect world scenario, so can instructors. You and bubbletrouble are drawing from the same pool of opinions you just dont realize it... You just said your an instructor, then you listed wait you do- "ALL MY JOB is is to hand-hold, practice mask clearing, do buoyancy skills, and generally be a supportive force in the water with an already certified diver who just wanted a little extra help" That would be the description of a NAUI DM or a PADI AI, Not MSDT. Im not suggesting your not, just seems like your used to playing a different role. Either way, Bubbletroubles comment: On an OW drift dive, a private DM/instructor will almost certainly feel pressured to rush the student through skills training so that he/she can get to the ""fun diving." Is not always the case, unfortunatley not that uncommon either. I hear about it all the time, I've seen it numerous times and I have been guilty of doing it once or twice myself (for others reasons)when I was new and much younger...

 

[Karibelle]

What I said was that "often times, ALL MY JOB is is to hand-hold, practice mask clearing..." etc. My point (which seems to have been unclear) is that my job as an instructor is to provide what my students need. My job is not to rush people through skills, which is what Bubbletrubble was saying... "will almost certainly..." I was responding to refute that statement.

I'm not above being generally helpful to a student, I don't have an agenda. As to what role I'm used to playing, lots of them. Sometimes does being an instructor make me a glorified DM? Of course it does. That's how Cozumel rolls. Do the divemasters I've helped create feel that short-changes them? I'll ask them. I doubt it.

I'm kind of a "don't get above your raisin'" kind of girl. And I try not to. You can make whatever judgments you feel are appropriate about me.

kari