Is learning from PADI that bad?

[Them]

I bet all of those were things the instructors could have failed the students for.

That they didn't means either the instructor disagrees with your judgment about how dangerous those divers really are (very possible - some things look really dangerous to beginners, where more experienced eyes just see noobs learning the way noobs do) or that they just didn't care (the "quality comes from the instructor" point I was trying to make).

 

[boulderjohn]

I said that - I don't know for sure. It I saw people in both my ow and AOW classes that could t demonstrate basic body control, comfort in water and a guy got lost on the 100' out and back NAV dive.

You'd think these would be mandatory, yet they all passed

I'd like to see some "pass/fail" criteria enforced.

They are all supposed to be enforced. Divers are required to complete all standards satisfactorily in order to be certified. Now, they can take as long as is necessary to reach that level, but they are supposed to reach that level. An instructor who certifies a students who does not meet standards is him/herself in violation of standards.

 

[Glenn08]

Take a look at the 'cave depths' thread; 'how does a dive computer know the depth ' by an instructor.

 

[drbill]

As you recognize in the OP, the instructor can make all the difference. In general I've bashed PADI for watering down dive training over the years (I came out of the Los Angeles County system in the 60s). However, I've taken two PADI certs (essentially repeats of my LAC cert) with two excellent PADI instructors and wouldn't hesitate to take another PADI cert with a good instructor.

 

[dwhthediver]

I said that - I don't know for sure. It I saw people in both my ow and AOW classes that could t demonstrate basic body control, comfort in water and a guy got lost on the 100' out and back NAV dive.

You'd think these would be mandatory, yet they all passed

I'd like to see some "pass/fail" criteria enforced.

That was my only point.

The navigation dive requires a reciprocal, and a navigated square, failure to accomplish requires remediation and another dive till the skill is demonstrated with a degree of of proficiency that satisfies me. I will continue to dive with the student till he does demonstrate proficiency. Same with open water, you pay for education and time, not a c-card. I recently had an open water student do a giant stride 4 times before I was satisfied that she demonstrated "mastery" and was comfortable doing it. If I am particular about the way a student gets in the water, do you really think I would be less particular underwater? Yes, I am 100% PADI, and I take mastery of skills very seriously. I do add gas management and dive planning in the class too.

 

[drbill]

Like with most of the watered down courses offered by some agencies these days, the instructor can make all the difference. Although I am NOT a fan of today's OW instruction by most agencies (I certified with LA County in the 60s), I have two PADI certifications that came from great instructors and I was quite happy with their courses.

 

[Hashsaz]

I have both naui and padi cert for diff. rank. Both are professional license provider, but their marketing are different, just like some said it's McDonald or somthing. Here's a simple but funny story i heard from my senior earlier to describe how to differential between the license provider by using with different method when they meet in same situation.

A group of divers with all same certification was stuck in the middle of the sea and the boat is about to sink:
SSI and SDI instrutor tell his students - the boat is about to sink, farewell and let's drown together.
Naui - the boat is about to sink, let's swim to the direction of shore, see who is lucky enough to survive.
Padi - the boat is about to sink, let's swim to the direction of shore, see who is lucky enought to survive, however before that, please pay $100 and i will teach you how to swim well.


this story doesn't mean the SSI and SDI are not good provider, but telling us they choose the easier way to pass all his student with less strictness. You pay less of course.
naui - they teach you some extra technique for ur diving if you ask for without charging for extra cost.
padi - they charge everything they teach



Hope you guys enjoy the story

 

[Edward3c]

A group of divers with all same certification was stuck in the middle of the sea and the boat is about to sink:
SSI and SDI instrutor tell his students - the boat is about to sink, farewell and let's drown together.
Naui - the boat is about to sink, let's swim to the direction of shore, see who is lucky enough to survive.
Padi - the boat is about to sink, let's swim to the direction of shore, see who is lucky enought to survive, however before that, please pay $100 and i will teach you how to swim well.

BSAC – the boat is about to sink, let’s get kitted-up, dive the new wreck, then swim to shore.

 

[SlowlySinking]

...but I see lots of PADI bashing...

Having done the PADI OW (this was what was on offer at the time) and hearing/reading the comments, I was wondering at one point "What did my course miss out?" and "Am I safe in the water with the training I have had?".

Yes, I do believe I am safe diving with the skills I have, but my confidence was initially a little shaken at hearing some people's comments.

 

[CamG]

Geetings SS and I think with your PADI cert you are fine.
In saying this I have never dove with you however as long as you keep your dives with in the skill level and experience level for your cert all should be ok.
THIS IS THE ADVANCED DIVING FORUM so you can expect to hear some comments about the Advanced nature of diving in general.
Typical OW / AOW dives non-tech environments are well within Recreational limits following the rules and regs of your certifying agency.

I have dove with instructors from all agencies and learned things from all of them!
I have numerous friends who represent ALL of the big agencies and several of the smaller ones.
I love the BSAC comment and I have a dive buddy that is BSAC AI great fellow and excellent diver.
It matters not the agency but matters totally on the Instructor you had.

We all follow different paths to reach our dive goals and some of us are inclined to open our minds to ALL methods, agencies, techniques, to learn grow as divers / people.
I am not bashing anyone or any agency, have several made moves I did not agree with? Sure but that is why there are more to learn from.

If any diver feels his or her training inadequate then TAKE ANOTHER COARSE from a different instructor!
The agency does not matter unless there is a specific skill requirement you are seeking.
Do not pick an easy path but understand with challenges comes failures and achievements.
Confidence, skill mastery, knowledge, wisdom does not come without struggle and is not cheap!
If it is worth doing then do it right and gain the experience in the water as it should be.

No one goes zero to hero overnight!
Sorry that is just the plain facts!
Our waters are full of freshly minted instructors who didn't do a mentorship program but a mock pool / OW session put together by a CD.
I am old school on this topic but a dive professional needs to be just that and experience is vital to that.
A full season as a DM and you get a lot of experience with training not just easy students but the toughies as well.
Enough of off topic Training rant!

Agencies print cards, instructors train divers!
Choose instructors wisely and know that diving is a work in progress it takes time in the water to master techniques.
Be a student ALWAYS LEARNING!

CamG Keep Diving....Keep Training....Keep Learning!