C02 building up while racing underwater to figure out working SAC?

[Nemrod]

Yesterday my buddy and I tried again to figure out our working SAC. This time we did not swim in the water column keeping a depth of 33 ft but found a bunch of tires at 33 ft at Langley Tire Reef, leaned over it in a horizontal position and then kicked at a steady pace for 5 minutes with our hands on one tire. It was like being on an underwater treadmill. Those 5 minutes were endless! Once again my buddy was fine while I began to struggle and I had to slow way down my kicking rhythm. There was nothing to be worried about, the depth was shallow, it was a familiar site, there was no current etc.etc.

I am baffled by the way my body reacted. As far as I can guess the reason may be:

1) my regulator is not working properly or its ability to deliver a large amount of air under those circumstance is limited (it's a Mares Abyss);

2) my metabolism is out of whack (sadly I have to admit that I have started to show some signs of pre-menopause...My buddy does not have to worry about this...Darn!)

3) my circulatory system is out of whack

or

4) my respiratory system is out of whack

Considering my family health history I pressed on and managed to make an appointment with my PA (physician assistant), who, unfortunately, is not a scuba diver. Wish me good luck!

So, what is your daily aerobic workout regimen?

N

 

[Soakedlontra]

For once, I'm absolutely with Dan. I suspect Sam is just fitter than you are.

:depressed: Then I don't understand the definition of "fitness' anymore...

Sam cycles to work 5 days a week and that's it (20 minutes ride each way). He used to jog 2 times a week but he doesn't do it anymore. He used to go backpacking almost every weekend during the Summer with me and now he does it few times only...

I go swimming once a week doing laps for one hour at least without stopping. Lately I have noticed that sometimes at the beginning of my work out I feel as if I don't get enough air. I have to use a nose clip because the pool water irritates the internal walls of my nose and after few hours after being in the pool without using a nose clip I sneeze like a maniac. So the nose clips gets in the way of my breathing. After a while I get used to it and I am fine. I stopped jogging because it's too hard to my knees so I go for walks every day sometimes I walk fast. I cycle to go around town when the weather is not too awful. Here is not flat cycling but hilly. Amen!

 

[danvolker]

:depressed: Then I don't understand the definition of "fitness' anymore...

Sam cycles to work 5 days a week and that's it (20 minutes ride each way). He used to jog 2 times a week but he doesn't do it anymore. He used to go backpacking almost every weekend during the Summer with me and now he does it few times only...

I go swimming once a week doing laps for one hour at least without stopping. Lately I have noticed that sometimes at the beginning of my work out I feel as if I don't get enough air. I have to use a nose clip because the pool water irritates the internal walls of my nose and after few hours after being in the pool without using a nose clip I sneeze like a maniac. So the nose clips gets in the way of my breathing. After a while I get used to it and I am fine. I stopped jogging because it's too hard to my knees so I go for walks every day sometimes I walk fast. I cycle to go around town when the weather is not too awful. Here is not flat cycling but hilly. Amen!

Just riding a bike for 10 to 20 minutes...at a sightseeing pace, is no better than walking in the mall---it will not help your fitness for what you now appear to desire.

If your maximal attainable heart rate was 180 beats per minute, then around 165 would be about the top of your aerobic band for training( your Anaerobic Threshold), and your aerobic bottom ( any lower and no aerobic benefit) would be around 145 bpm.... So any riding below 145 bpm does not count towards aerobic fitness, and if you want fitness to get lots better, rather than just slowly creep to a tiny bit better, you need to use an effective workout strategy---this means interval training....say warm up at 145 for 20 minutes, then get to 165 for 2 minutes, ride slow for 4 to 6 minutes, then 165 for 2, and so on for 4 to 6 iterations....This is once per week minimum, and could be much better at 2 times per week..,say tuesday and Friday.....then ride at 145 to 150 for an hour the other one or two days.....On the two interval days, figure 1 hour is absolute minimim, 2 hours of riding is much better...when 6 intervals are completed, do the rest at 145( if this 180 bph was your max heart rate.....you need to arrive at your max, to know your target for Anaerobic threshold and for the bottom of your aerobic zone... The formula used by trainers at some gyms of 220 minus your age, is bogus....it has relevance to a large average population, but is foolish for an athlete. Even in my 50's I can still hit 190, so max HR is still close to 200 ( it used to be 206 when I was 30).... Many athletes can get to 200 or above....and some athletes equally as strong, may have a max heart rate of 170.... which means they pump more blood per stroke.....everyone that wants optimal training, needs to know the HR info for them, and then train in the zones.
Get a heart rate monitor

 

[Soakedlontra]

Just riding a bike for 10 to 20 minutes...at a sightseeing pace, is no better than walking in the mall---it will not help your fitness for what you now appear to desire.

If your maximal attainable heart rate was 180 beats per minute, then around 165 would be about the top of your aerobic band for training( your Anaerobic Threshold), and your aerobic bottom ( any lower and no aerobic benefit) would be around 145 bpm.... So any riding below 145 bpm does not count towards aerobic fitness, and if you want fitness to get lots better, rather than just slowly creep to a tiny bit better, you need to use an effective workout strategy---this means interval training....say warm up at 145 for 20 minutes, then get to 165 for 2 minutes, ride slow for 4 to 6 minutes, then 165 for 2, and so on for 4 to 6 iterations....This is once per week minimum, and could be much better at 2 times per week..,say tuesday and Friday.....then ride at 145 to 150 for an hour the other one or two days.....On the two interval days, figure 1 hour is absolute minimim, 2 hours of riding is much better...when 6 intervals are completed, do the rest at 145( if this 180 bph was your max heart rate.....you need to arrive at your max, to know your target for Anaerobic threshold and for the bottom of your aerobic zone... The formula used by trainers at some gyms of 220 minus your age, is bogus....it has relevance to a large average population, but is foolish for an athlete. Even in my 50's I can still hit 190, so max HR is still close to 200 ( it used to be 206 when I was 30).... Many athletes can get to 200 or above....and some athletes equally as strong, may have a max heart rate of 170.... which means they pump more blood per stroke.....everyone that wants optimal training, needs to know the HR info for them, and then train in the zones.
Get a heart rate monitor

Sorry man I understand that you want to help but I am already lost in translation here...There is something wrong with my breathing regardless of how many hours I may decided to exercise. I used to run marathons when I was in high school. This feeling of heaviness on my sternum is not normal, for my standards anyway.

 

[danvolker]

Sorry man I understand that you want to help but I am already lost in translation here...There is something wrong with my breathing regardless of how many hours I may decided to exercise. I used to run marathons when I was in high school. This feeling of heaviness on my sternum is not normal, for my standards anyway.

Time to see your cardiologist for a stress test? If you think something breathing and heart related is not normal, don't wait.

 

[Nemrod]

:depressed: Then I don't understand the definition of "fitness' anymore...

Sam cycles to work 5 days a week and that's it (20 minutes ride each way). He used to jog 2 times a week but he doesn't do it anymore. He used to go backpacking almost every weekend during the Summer with me and now he does it few times only...

I go swimming once a week doing laps for one hour at least without stopping. Lately I have noticed that sometimes at the beginning of my work out I feel as if I don't get enough air. I have to use a nose clip because the pool water irritates the internal walls of my nose and after few hours after being in the pool without using a nose clip I sneeze like a maniac. So the nose clips gets in the way of my breathing. After a while I get used to it and I am fine. I stopped jogging because it's too hard to my knees so I go for walks every day sometimes I walk fast. I cycle to go around town when the weather is not too awful. Here is not flat cycling but hilly. Amen!

The definition is the same as always. You need to push your heart rate to a rate appropriate for your age and hold it there for at least 30 minutes. So there would be a warm up and a cool off before you get into the "heart" of your aerobic workout. Intervals are useful once a base fitness has been established. It does seem that you do have a level of fitness that can serve as a platform. You are to be applauded for doing at least something. Of course, super fitness is not required for scuba, but a solid 45/60 minute workout in the "zone" at least three times a week plus the walking, leisurely cycling you already do would be excellent. Better fitness, better SAC, no way around it.

Also, I feel your pain with the nose clips, I use them also for the same reason, my sinuses get raw from the chlorine. Oh, if there is any question to your heart, better have your doc OK you and he/she might be able to provide some guidance as well. This little article I found some time back is very good I think:

http://www.heart.com/heart-rate-chart.html

If you really think something is wrong, you best see a doctor, NOW. I suspect you are fine and just not nearly in as good a shape as you think you are. And your little swim test is showing you that truth. But, see a doctor, really, please. We carry all this safety equipment with us, safety first, blah, blah to infinity and yet so many 50 somethings (etc.) jump in the water in very poor fitness condition or never see their doctors. Safety first, your life first!

N

 

[TSandM]

Agree with the others -- if you really think something has significantly changed in your exercise tolerance, you need to find out why.

I wonder whether it's either fitness, or the fins you use. I have never used them, so I don't know how easy it is to swim hard or fast with them. I know I own fins that, if I had to swim hard with them, I'd exhaust myself before I got anywhere.

 

[Soakedlontra]

Time to see your cardiologist for a stress test? If you think something breathing and heart related is not normal, don't wait.

I have never been to a cardiologist, I hope I don't have to go to see one !

About the fins I have been using them for some time and never noticed anything particularly problematic. Maybe it's the way I kick...

 

[danvolker]

When we are in high school and college, as kids we are in sports programs, and have high activity levels( at least kids did back in the day). So as a kid, you probably got to the point of running marathons without really feeling you had to work at it...it all occurred more as "baby steps" in incremental fitness gains. Then, most adults will spend 20 or 30 years doing essentially no effective aerobic training, and this will destroy the fitness levels they once had. While aging certainly hurts as well, I have seen so many athletes in their 60's and 70's that can do more than most 20 year olds today, that I am now pretty certain that-- it is not "how old you are", but rather, "How long has it been since you were on an effective Training Schedule"?

But again, if you are even 40, and have not been training non-stop since school, starting an intense workout plan now SHOULD BEGIN with a stress test from a cardiologist. Those that know me, know I hate the symptom based treatment paradigms of American Pharmaceutical based Medicine...But their is no disputing the high level our medicine has reached in "Looking for Diseases" and the ability to find serious imbalances that need to be fixed. Because they are so good at it, this ability makes a fortune for the drug companies.
You need to embrace this diagnostic Power available to you...and if anything comes back that is troubling, the big deal then is to do the research yourself to have a REAL DIALOG with the doctor(s) regarding the best course of action. Never believe in the "magic pill" , and figure your nutrition and exercise "may" be able to CURE you...while drugs will NOT Cure anything heart or fitness related that you could be experiencing. Demand a CURE. Don't rest till you have one. Have nothing but disdain for the Drug Companies.

 

[TSandM]

Well, what you are describing is exercise intolerance that is different from your buddy's. The possibilities include: You have some kind of health issue that is limiting your exercise tolerance, usually something cardiopulmonary. You are not as aerobically fit as your buddy. You are not accomplishing the task as efficiently as your buddy (you're working harder). Or, you may be more sensitive to work of breathing or CO2 buildup than your buddy.

If it's a health issue, it should show up with any sort of exertion. If you and Sam can both ride a bike up the same hill at the same speed, and you don't feel short of breath or exhausted, then it's unlikely to be a health issue.

If you DO get tired or short of breath before he does, then the question is whether the average person of your age and general fitness would find the task challenging. If you can't walk up a couple of flights of stairs without getting winded, or walk a mile on fairly level ground at a brisk pace, then I'd say you need a medical evaluation -- in fact, if fatigue or shortness of breath is limiting ANY of your on-land activities, you should get an evaluation. Thyroid issues are common in women our age, and anemia is not rare, and both of those things can affect exercise tolerance.

If your on-land exercise tolerance is roughly the same as his, then something is different underwater. You could try swapping regulators, and see if your settings are increasing work of breathing. If that doesn't change anything, then it comes down to individual differences, which is kick efficiency, fin type, breathing pattern, and anxiety level.