Another opinion: To buddy or not to buddy

[D_B]

one thing I'll add to the already very good advice you have been given here is this ...
I have an integrated inflator too (Air2) and one thing I did was to get a longer hose on my primary regulator .. the stock hose is just too short for comfortable air sharing , I found it was trying to pull the reg out of the persons mouth unless literally face to face ... mine is now octo length goes under my arm and up to my reg and is much more comfortable to share air

 

[meagicano]

The backup SPG is an important thing - I would make that a priority. More than once I have seen someone in our dive club with an air integrated computer that crapped out after driving an hour and a half. No backup SPG, no dive.

If I had a dive buddy who solely relied on an air integrated computer I would be reluctant to make plans for the pair of us to go diving, especially if extensive travel is involved. I know things can go wrong and people have the right to thumb the dive whenever, but I don't have a lot of faith in them when a backup SPG is so easily obtained and used.

Also, not all OW dives are easy enough to just pop to the surface. We do a lot of drift diving in the St Lawrence, including spots in the shipping channel. There are also areas with heavy boat traffic - extremely unsafe to pop up and surface swim. It is an option - just not a very good one.

 

[chrpai]

I think this highlights one of the problems associated with the common advice to new divers to find a Mentor to teach them about good diving techniques.

The advice is to find a GOOD mentor. The same problem could be said of finding a GOOD instructor.

Another curious thing is his insistence that you do it all his way. Most experienced divers can work with the gear you have. If you were to show up with your gear in my TecReational Diver class, I would not approve of all your choices, and I would counsel you, but I would still let you take the class in that gear and would not care if you decided to stay with every bit of it.

Again the same could be said of instructors. How many times have we heard the story of someone saying they bought a different BCD somewhere else and the LDS says that you can use it when you dive with them?

As a very experienced diver and mentor, I do have suggestions I'll make. But I won't force them on you and refuse to dive with you unless the choices you are making are clearly dangerous. You don't sound dangerous to me.

I also don't like the way this relationship is starting. Find another buddy.

PS- Don't be surprised if one day many years from now that you realize he was right on many points. But he's still wrong on how he is delivering the message.

 

[divin'dog]

The advice is to find a GOOD mentor.

...I also don't like the way this relationship is starting. Find another buddy.

PS- Don't be surprised if one day many years from now that you realize he was right on many points. But he's still wrong on how he is delivering the message.

chrpai is right on the money. If you planned on diving with this guy so that he could mentor you, it will be a one way relationship of his opinions. He sounds too closed minded for me. He may be right for what he wants and the way he dives, but you need to get in the water and learn to use the stuff you bought. Unless you want someone to dictate what to wear, use, and do, you are in for some pretty rigid thinking.

I, too, bought an integrated inflator/octo with my first set of equipment (when they first came out). It was nice to get rid of an extra hose but now I dive with a std octo because of the problems in servicing it... they have since gotten better. I also bought an air integrated computer w/transmitter... didn't like it. I also thought about buying an spg as back up for reliability. Never did and then eventually sold my computer and went back to a tethered console which I like much better (I'm not your typical SB diver). It's air integrated but I have had 0 problems with it. I dive with many people who have integrated computers and no spg and we never seem to run into any problems. If you get no signal, then you will be thumbing the dive. That's it.

As far as an AL tank, you will be diving locally. Get used to what you will be using locally. Use your steel. Diving in warmer water will be less weight, thinner wetsuit, probably AL tanks. If you become a good cold water diver, you should not have any problems adjusting to warm water diving.

There are all kinds of divers and all kinds of equipment. As long as you are a safe diver, knowing your limits and equipment, I would dive with you. I think your equipment is not preferred by some divers but it is good enough to go diving at your level. Enjoy the equipment you bought for now and learn how to use it and what its drawbacks are. Your choices will mature as you get more dives under your belt and, of course, your preferences will change too. That's the fun of diving and growing in this sport (and spending money).

Enjoy what you have now. Get in the water with someone who will let you have fun with your equipment. That's why you're diving. Spend some time to find the right person if you are looking for a mentor... otherwise, dive with someone who has similar skill levels and safety habits as well as style of diving. You'd be surprised how much fun it is to grow together as divers. Be safe. Have fun.

 

[gcarter]

I have never had a DM, instructor, or buddy criticize my gear like that. I have been asked where I got something, and received lots of helpful advice when I asked for it.

I agree with the comments on the air integration. I dove with a guy in Cuba who had to scrub a dive because he had no backup SPG and his transmitter would not pair.

I own both ALs and steel, and have rented both when travelling. Dead easy to add / subtract a few pounds. It can affect your trim, but it really isn't a big deal to switch.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Does this mean you also wouldn't accept back-up on necklace/primary donate with long hose? (Just looking into gear, so wondering what opinions are out there. I'm probably going to stick with rental for awhile, but this seems to be the set up all the DMs and Instructors at our shop dive)

Actually that would be the preferred configuration. My advanced classes are not for everyone. I do not market them as being so. They are for those who will not be the average vacation diver.

Gear configurations that are optimal for the dives that I require and skills are spelled out before someone is allowed to sign up. As are the required skill sets and I may even conduct evaluation dives to see if the student is even ready for advanced level training of the type I offer.

They can use an integrated inflator once they have proved to me they are competent with it under all conditions of the course. But there are still required drills where a standard octo is going to need to be on their rig. Such as the 100 ft side by side air share swims with no mask. And the air share swims and ascents with no mask and simulated deco stops. And no mask swims and ascents where the buddy controls the buoyancy for both divers while on a divers octo. I don't want them to have to remove a persons reg from their mouth to do that. There are lots of stuff hits the fan drills in the class.

Optimal gear configurations are a part of the classroom and why they are preferred is covered. I also reserve the right to refuse those that I and other class participants are not comfortable with. Same with the redundant air supply requirements. Spare airs are absolutely forbidden.

And all will have an analog spg. No exception to that. And back up depth and timing devices since we do plan all dives with tables and back up plans are included where the diver falls back on them when the computer "dies".

The St Lawrence example is a good one of why a direct ascent may not be possible. And why you might want to have things a certain way.

One thing that is done is to go over a persons gear, and like an intro to tech class modify, change, and accept or reject items. As I said my class is not for everyone. Those who insist on using gear that is not ok for my class are free to use another instructor.

People seek me out for this class. I don't market it as being for everyone. Because it is not.

So my class, my rules for skills, gear, entry into it, and graduation from it. They are clearly stated and agreed before any money is exchanged.
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

 

[WVRICK]

Actually that would be the preferred configuration. My advanced classes are not for everyone. I do not market them as being so. They are for those who will not be the average vacation diver.

Gear configurations that are optimal for the dives that I require and skills are spelled out before someone is allowed to sign up. As are the required skill sets and I may even conduct evaluation dives to see if the student is even ready for advanced level training of the type I offer.

They can use an integrated inflator once they have proved to me they are competent with it under all conditions of the course. But there are still required drills where a standard octo is going to need to be on their rig. Such as the 100 ft side by side air share swims with no mask. And the air share swims and ascents with no mask and simulated deco stops. And no mask swims and ascents where the buddy controls the buoyancy for both divers while on a divers octo. I don't want them to have to remove a persons reg from their mouth to do that. There are lots of stuff hits the fan drills in the class.

Optimal gear configurations are a part of the classroom and why they are preferred is covered. I also reserve the right to refuse those that I and other class participants are not comfortable with. Same with the redundant air supply requirements. Spare airs are absolutely forbidden.

And all will have an analog spg. No exception to that. And back up depth and timing devices since we do plan all dives with tables and back up plans are included where the diver falls back on them when the computer "dies".

The St Lawrence example is a good one of why a direct ascent may not be possible. And why you might want to have things a certain way.

One thing that is done is to go over a persons gear, and like an intro to tech class modify, change, and accept or reject items. As I said my class is not for everyone. Those who insist on using gear that is not ok for my class are free to use another instructor.

People seek me out for this class. I don't market it as being for everyone. Because it is not.

So my class, my rules for skills, gear, entry into it, and graduation from it. They are clearly stated and agreed before any money is exchanged.
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I agree with Jim for one basic reason. The rigging standards are not based on preference, they are based on safety standards. Not a bad thing. Although I will never be a tech diver I took Jim seriously when he explained why I should do certain things a certain way because they make sense. However, Jim did not force me to make these choices he offered them to me and explained why. For example, I would never trust a transmitter to tell me how much air I have, I want something tried and true with many years of safe use history. It also makes a lot of sense to have a long primary hose so you can give it to your buddy in an OOA emergency. The psychology of giving the person the reg you were just using gives a strong message. Like Jim said, "it says to your buddy, here, take this, it works, I was just using it."

Having said all of that I don't disagree with what your potential dive buddy told you but I disagree his controlling attitude.

 

[chrpai]

I have never had a DM, instructor, or buddy criticize my gear like that.

Sadly, I have. I once had a DM look at my LP95 and DRIS 27lb BP/W with AL plate and say something like "Can that tiny ass wing float that big ass tank?"

Wierd thing is this guy dives BP/W himself and I am pretty sure he is familiar with the concept of a balanced rig. And it wasn't the first, second or even 20th time I had brought that rig on the boat.

 

[boulderjohn]

The advice is to find a GOOD mentor. The same problem could be said of finding a GOOD instructor.

I fully agree. Finding a great Mentor to help you out can be a terrific thing to do. Chosing a bad Mentor to show you the way can be a horror. Here's the problem--research has clearly shown that in ANY activity, someone who does not have good knowledge of that activity cannot tell how good someone else is at it. I first encountered this research in my regular profession, and it explained why there are so many bad hires in professions that require technical expertise. The people doing the hiring are often not experts in those areas, and they can make very bad choices.

The next time you are on a dive trip to a resort area, pretend you are a nwe diver. Look around at the people in the water with you--how many of them would you want teaching you how to dive?

 

[chrpai]

Here's the problem--research has clearly shown that in ANY activity, someone who does not have good knowledge of that activity cannot tell how good someone else is at it. I first encountered this research in my regular profession, and it explained why there are so many bad hires in professions that require technical expertise. The people doing the hiring are often not experts in those areas, and they can make very bad choices.

Totally agreed.

The next time you are on a dive trip to a resort area, pretend you are a nwe diver. Look around at the people in the water with you--how many of them would you want teaching you how to dive?

I have a daughter who is 10 1/2 and will probably get certified within the next two years. I'd say I wouldn't want the vast majority of the local instructors to teach her to dive. I've only met 2 so far that I would trust her with which probably represents about 10% of the instructors that I know. The rest turn out divers that are horrible.