Drop the freaking weights!

[flots am]

I don’t blame new divers at all. IMHO the blame rests entirely on the training industry’s inability to close the sale on a decent cla$$ that is complete enough to train competent divers. Instead they hope to sell 4-6 merit badges in order to get them there.

Believe it or not, there is nothing preventing teaching all the items in your bullet points, in OW class (at least for SSI and SDI/TDI), and in fact, they can be considered requirements if you choose to interpret them that way.

Wheter the instructor wants to take the time and the initiative is a different story, but nothing prevents it. If the shop does a high enough volume to have pool time and staff around, it really doesn't add any significant overhead to teach a longer class like Jim mentioned, instead of a quick one.

The real problem is that a lot of the students simply want the Burger King drive-through even if it's the same price as Peter Luger's Steak House.

flots.

 

[Bob DBF]

Rich, I dropped the freaking weights!!!

Had to do it twice in 50 years, once on the surface in the days before the BC, and the second when submerged free diving. I believe in dropping the weight-belt, practicing, and encourage others to practice and keep it in their short list of rescue techniques; it is better to drop the belt too soon than too late.

"They always die with their weight belt on." Is the epitaph of Abalone Divers of the north coast of Ca., it shouldn't be.



Bob
-------------------
I may be old, but I'm not dead yet.

 

[Diver0001]

I haven’t heard any viable theories that don’t circle back to standard training practices. Full Disclosure: I am an old-school curmudgeon on this issue.

I think everyone has a breaking point at which normal thinking goes out the window. It seems to me that a lot of cases of people not ditching weights has to do more with the frame of mind they were in (panic?) as opposed to not having mastered the skill or understanding the need/purpose.

It's easy, VERY easy, to blame instructors or training agencies when a diver makes a mistake but some of these cases are happening to seasoned divers. In recent incident involving two Dutch divers, I believe one or both were experienced instructors. An incident (not sure of the specifics) involving one diver eventually ended with 2 dead divers and one bent IIRC.. all of this within the NDL's if I'm not mistaken and solvable by ditching some weight.

The obvious one on everyone's mind right now is Quero, of course.... another seasoned instructor with all of the skills, training and understanding you could ask for but for some reason lacking the presence of mind at the crucial moment.

I think if we understood more about why people fail to ditch weights that it would be helpful. But just blaming agencies or instructors isn't very helpful, if you ask me.

R..

 

[Bob DBF]

I think everyone has a breaking point at which normal thinking goes out the window. It seems to me that a lot of cases of people not ditching weights has to do more with the frame of mind they were in (panic?) as opposed to not having mastered the skill or understanding the need/purpose.
R..

I agree about the breaking point, my perspective is that everyone should have a good idea where their breaking point, or over tasking level begins, so they can drop back to survival basics when overloaded. I dropped my weight belt because I had one trick left and if that didn't work panic was my next option, so I dropped the belt before my last trick. Also, I've been so vocal about dropping the belt, I didn't want to get caught dead with my belt on.



Bob
---------------------
I may be old, but I'm not dead yet.

 

[scubafanatic]

Not if the diver retightens it at depth. Sometimes on surfacing my belt is so tight it hurts.

...yet another reason to go with integrated weights.

 

[rjack321]

yes but where have you seen reports of people not dropping enough weight and dying??....

Actually its pretty common. OOA, races up and gets to surface, passes out due to embolism or otherwise is in a panic and doesn't orally inflate their BC, sinks back down and drowns. There has been a fatality along these lines or similar just about every year I can recall. Many are described in accidents and incidents here on SB. So yes NOT dropping lead (at all) is implicated in a whole lot of recreational scuba fatalities.

 

[Rich Keller]

Believe it or not, there is nothing preventing teaching all the items in your bullet points, in OW class (at least for SSI and SDI/TDI), and in fact, they can be considered requirements if you choose to interpret them that way.

Wheter the instructor wants to take the time and the initiative is a different story, but nothing prevents it. If the shop does a high enough volume to have pool time and staff around, it really doesn't add any significant overhead to teach a longer class like Jim mentioned, instead of a quick one.

The real problem is that a lot of the students simply want the Burger King drive-through even if it's the same price as Peter Luger's Steak House.

flots.

If it doesn't add any significant overhead then why do the agencies not make it part of the course? Having the students dictate how the class should be taught is ridicules! Being a self regulated industry is a good thing if used properly. We should know better what the course should cover then someone from the outside especially a student!

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I have been reading about a diver found dead on the bottom with a full BCD and all the weights still in place. This seems insane to me. Put most if not all of your weights on a belt and make the belt the last piece of equipment you put on so it can be the first thing to come off unobstructed in an emergence. Weight belts are cheap, I have left more money on the bar as a tip then it would cost me to buy a new weight belt. You people go on endlessly about holding a perfect hover and integrate your weights to better achieve that goal. This is NOT a good idea if it comes at the expense of your LIFE! I don't care if you do drills to practice pulling weights from 2 or more areas, with a belt one pull and it is GONE! Drinking the Kool-aid about having to hold a perfect hover is one thing but droning in it is another.

Don't disagree with the premise, but in this case ...

1. You're suggesting that not ditching weights had anything at all to do with the fatality ... which is pure speculation ... and ...
2. The person in the incident was not in any way associated with "Kool-Aid" or "holding a perfect hover" ... which makes your whole premise nothing more than yet another dick-pulling exercise.

Why don't you try, instead, to make your point without either leaping to unsubstantiated conclusions or finding some way to blame it on some other group of divers that you don't like?

... and FWIW ... this isn't the 1970's ... there are way more choices than weight belts which are equally practical in most recreational diving situations ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Jim Lapenta]

...yet another reason to go with integrated weights.

Mine are integrated right onto my weightbelt or bolted on to the plate.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

There is a school of thought in tech diving that accidentally loosing ditchable weight is more dangerous than not being able to ditch weight but I agree. 99% of all divers who get into trouble could have avoided that trouble by ditching weight.

Wow ... I'd love to know the source of that statistic ... I don't believe it's even close to being accurate ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

---------- Post added October 14th, 2013 at 05:46 AM ----------

Any educated guesses as to why this happens ?

... poor decision-making ... which can be fatal regardless of what equipment you happen to be using ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)