Drop the freaking weights!

[AfterDark]

Weight belts aren't a universal panacea because the damn things can slip off if you don't have hips and that includes skinny and fat people. Sure crank it down but you're in a vise to keep it on.

Not if the diver retightens it at depth. Sometimes on surfacing my belt is so tight it hurts.

 

[Rich Keller]

If you are properly weighted to begin with you don't need to ditch all the weight. Losing 2- 4 lbs. is more than enough to start to get positive and once you start it doesn't just stop. But you can still control your ascent.

Dropping an entire belt can also be a very good way to get seriously hurt or even dead.

I wear soft weights in a pouch belt so I have the option of just dropping some weights if needed but I see this scenario as working the problem before it becomes an emergency. If the situation has deteriorated to the point that I am going to drop the belt then I need to be on the surface ASAP and the more weight that was on that belt the faster I am going to get there. Could I get hurt doing this? Maybe, but staying to press an already bad situation is worse and where I believe most of these deaths occur. I think the training most divers get would stress working a problem first and then dropping all your weight as a last resort but dropping weights is barely mentioned in training and never practiced. I think in a high stress situation a diver is likely to work the problem longer then they should because they do not know where to draw the line and bail out.

 

[phoenix31tt]

If the situation has deteriorated to the point that I am going to drop the belt then I need to be on the surface ASAP and the more weight that was on that belt the faster I am going to get there. Could I get hurt doing this? Maybe, but staying to press an already bad situation is worse and where I believe most of these deaths occur

You seem to be exchanging dead on the bottom with possibly dead on the surface...

Again I've never read a report where the diver didn't ditch enough weight, or was ditching weight one by one and died...

Most cases in this regard is THEY DONT DITCH period... How is putting all or most of your weight on your belt going to help that?

The only thing helps that is presence of mind, awareness and practice...



Sent from my Nokia Lumia 920

 

[Rich Keller]

I will trade dead on the bottom for possibly dead on the surface any day of the week. The people getting out by just dumping a few weights at a time are in my opinion working the problem properly BEFORE it becomes and emergency. Not dropping weights in an emergency is what I have a problem with. It is barely mentioned in training and never practiced so a diver is far more likely to try and work the problem to their death rather then bail out.

 

[phoenix31tt]

I will trade dead on the bottom for possibly dead on the surface any day of the week. The people getting out by just dumping a few weights at a time are in my opinion working the problem properly BEFORE it becomes and emergency.

yes but where have you seen reports of people not dropping enough weight and dying??... this is the part of your logic i cant understand... the moving most of your weight to your weight belt portion... it won't change the fact that in a pinch divers don't seem to drop weight AT ALL

p.s. I would much rather increase my chances for survival than taking possibly dead at the surface ...

 

[MAKO Spearguns]

Weight belts aren't a universal panacea because the damn things can slip off if you don't have hips and that includes skinny and fat people. Sure crank it down but you're in a vise to keep it on.

Elastic rubber belts (which are commonly used by freedivers) address this issue very well. They typically have enough elasticity to automatically compensate for suit compression and they are resistant to sliding around and falling off.

We think it is VERY important that all divers are prepared to ditch lead in an emergency. So much so that we have instituted a weigh belt replacement policy for our customers.

To our valued customers: MAKO Spearguns recognizes that diving (both freediving and SCUBA) are potentially dangerous activities. We have all heard of tragic accidents where a diver is found on the bottom while still wearing a weight belt. We hope and pray that should any of our customers find themselves in a situation where ditching a belt may be necessary, that there is no delay and the belt is dropped immediately.

In many situations a belt is recoverable, however if your MAKO belt and lead and/or Tinman weights are ditched (and lost) in a true emergency…. MAKO will replace them at our cost.

The last thing we want is our customers considering the cost of a lost belt in an emergency. The only thing we ask is that the individual shares with us (and our friends and customers) some sort of write-up about how the situation developed and how it was resolved. That way, we can all learn and be reminded to keep safety in the forefront of our minds.

Dive safe

Dano

http://www.makospearguns.com/product-p/mfdwb.htm

 

[Rich Keller]

yes but where have you seen reports of people not dropping enough weight and dying??... this is the part of your logic i cant understand... the moving most of your weight to your weight belt portion... it won't change the fact that in a pinch divers don't seem to drop weight AT ALL

p.s. I would much rather increase my chances for survival than taking possibly dead at the surface ...

I have never seen a report of people dying because they only dropped a few weights. As I said earlier using Jim's example those people worked out the problem BEFORE it became and emergency. With a pouch style weight belt you have the option of removing some or all of your weight at once, this does not have to be an "either or" proposition. The people who are not dropping the weights AT ALL in an emergency was the whole point to starting this thread and why it is titled "Drop the freaking weights". This goes back to the training, as dose increasing your chances for survival and being properly weighted in the first place. I think people need to give dropping most if not all of their weights in an emergency FAR more consideration and practice that it ever got in their training. Using Jim's example again, if you have some weight integrated and most on the belt you can drop the integrated weight to make a controlled assent and still retain the option to dump it all if your situation deteriorates further and becomes an emergency.

 

[phoenix31tt]

was the whole point to starting this thread and why it is titled "Drop the freaking weights".

i know but i make it a point to read the actual first post instead of just the title

Put most if not all of your weights on a belt and make the belt the last piece of equipment you put on so it can be the first thing to come off unobstructed in an emergence.... You people go on endlessly about holding a perfect hover and integrate your weights to better achieve that goal. This is NOT a good idea if it comes at the expense of your LIFE! I don't care if you do drills to practice pulling weights from 2 or more areas, with a belt one pull and it is GONE! Drinking the Kool-aid about having to hold a perfect hover is one thing but droning in it is another.

and that is where my issue lies... it seems that you have corrected yourself now though... I agree 100% with you with the practice, training, proper weighting etc...

Just not the part i quoted above... holding the perfect hover/trim and having ditchable weight are not mutally exclusive.. they can both be done safely together

 

[Rich Keller]

Just not the part i quoted above... holding the perfect hover/trim and having ditchable weight are not mutally exclusive.. they can both be done safely together

Yes both can be done safely but far to much emphases is placed on hovering and almost none to dropping weights. I feel this leads divers to integrating too much or all of their weight and not being able to bail out fast enough or maybe not at all when it is needed. Not dropping weights at all and not being able to drop enough weight are really two separate issues that come from the same root cause, training. The result of that training can be seen here. There must be hundreds of threads on SB about hovering and buoyancy but almost none about dropping weights in an emergency.

 

[Akimbo]

…There must be hundreds of threads on SB about hovering and buoyancy but almost none about dropping weights in an emergency.

[rant]Geezer Alert![/rant]
I concur. Reading posts and observing new divers leads me to believe the following:

• They are entirely too dependent on the buddy system with virtually no comprehension of self-rescue. The buddy system has merits when both partners are competent but it is a recipe for mutual disaster when both are planning on the other to save their bacon.
• They are grossly ignorant of decompression to the point that many seem to have the impression that consequences are on par with drowning.
• Their understanding of barotrauma largely consists of “never stop breathing” because the details are too gruesome and might scare customers away.
• Many have very poor swimming skills so are not nearly as comfortable in the water as they should be. As a minimum that mental state is a trigger for panic.
• Most are grossly overweighed for the convenience of the instructor and don’t appreciate the simple elegance of Archimedes' principle.
• Very few have decent freediving skills, which is important to confidence in a self-rescue.

I don’t blame new divers at all. IMHO the blame rests entirely on the training industry’s inability to close the sale on a decent cla$$ that is complete enough to train competent divers. Instead they hope to sell 4-6 merit badges in order to get them there.