Southern Belize Needs Your Help!

[Mike]

Flots and Mike like cruising.

I'm a proponent for the truth on any subject, instead of hysteria and hype created by ignorance and agenda.

If you would try it once in awhile, you'd re-read what I read and clearly understand that I support Belize in their right to decide whether they should prostitute themselves to the cruise industry, but I don't support and advise them not to lose the focus of the issue with tangents about cruise ships being polluters or dropping anchors on reefs which is just false and dilutes their position and gives their opponents a chance to change the subject.

 

[Downing]

I agree in that I'd like the focus to remain on what environmental impact this is going to have on Harvest Caye and the surrounding area and what economic benefit it will have for southern Belize.

Carbon footprints and the like are a little too esoteric for me.

 

[Ralph Capeling]

I mentioned this a while back (several times) and was slapped around for it.

This isn't the first Public Works project I've seen that pissed off a group of people, and it always ends the same.

If they had gotten involved to steer it, it could have been nearly anything they wanted. However they just stood there and said "no!".

People that stand in front of huge things and say "no!" typically get ignored and pushed out of the way.

Highway construction in the US in the 60s-80s worked the same way. With a little effort, it was possible to steer the highway around historically significant neighborhoods, and various accommodations were built to minimize impact on environmentally sensitive areas (tunnels under the highway for wildlife to cross, etc.). This worked just fine, except for the people who simply didn't like highways at all and stood there and said "no!" They were simply ignored.

The ability of humans to not learn from the past, still fascinates me.

Flots, maybe you missed the part where there was an extensive study sponsored by the Belize Government and The Belize Tourism Board that had a tremendous amount of public input. That study was adopted by both The Government of Belize and the Belize Tourism Board. That study specifically addressed cruise tourism and concluded that large cruise ships are not suitable for southern Belize. Smaller cruise ships (circa 300 passengers) was supported.
There was a second study done called 2020 in which the residents of the peninsula defined what they do want - they did not stand around, they outlined what development they want and will support.
I can understand your comments in relation to some projects, but do not think they are applicable in this case.
Regards
Ralph Capeling

 

[flots am]

Flots, maybe you missed the part where there was an extensive study sponsored by the Belize Government and The Belize Tourism Board that had a tremendous amount of public input. That study was adopted by both The Government of Belize and the Belize Tourism Board.

Apparently not, since it's a business deal, not an invasion.

If the Belize government doesn't want this, they don't need studies or consensus, they just need to say "no". It doesn't matter if the people say no, it only matters what the government says.

Whatever else they did was just to placate the Not-in-my-backyard crowd, and if you're not happy with it, you need to boot them out during the next election.

Also, the "under 300 passenger" ship requirment you lisited is pretty funny. There are like 4 of them in the world, they're not all in the Caribbean and they're not full of divers. I'd be surprised if you could fill a single dive boat when one was in port.

 

[dlofting]

If the Belize government doesn't want this, they don't need studies or consensus, they just need to say "no". It doesn't matter if the people say no, it only matters what the government says.

Whatever else they did was just to placate the Not-in-my-backyard crowd, and if you're not happy with it, you need to boot them out during the next election.

Wow, what a statement. That's certainly not the way it works in Canada. Projects that the government initially supported have been significantly modified or cancelled through public input/pressure.....and all that has happened between elections. As far as I can tell things work pretty much the same in the US although the process itself may be different.....Don't see why Belize should be different as it's government is based on the British model.

 

[Downing]

Speaking of the Brits, maybe this case will end up before the Privy Council Chamber in London like the Chalillo Dam project.

 

[flots am]

Wow, what a statement. That's certainly not the way it works in Canada. Projects that the government initially supported have been significantly modified or cancelled through public input/pressure.....and all that has happened between elections. As far as I can tell things work pretty much the same in the US although the process itself may be different.....Don't see why Belize should be different as it's government is based on the British model.

There's Government Support and "Government Support".

My point was that the gov't can and will do what it wants, and this isn't always related to what they tell the people or what the people want.

The government didn't need environmental studies if they wanted to stop the project. All they had to do was say "no". The fact that they didn't say no, means they want the project, and it's going to happen, regardless of any studies.

 

[nimoh]

There's Government Support and "Government Support".

My point was that the gov't can and will do what it wants, and this isn't always related to what they tell the people or what the people want.

The government didn't need environmental studies if they wanted to stop the project. All they had to do was say "no". The fact that they didn't say no, means they want the project, and it's going to happen, regardless of any studies.

Sure, like when the Viktor Yanukovych government said no to a European trade deal.

The fact is that the government has to answer to the people. There are three ways to do this, government can let public opinion influence their decision, they can try and sway public opinion, or they can make their decision quietly and hide it from the public. However, it is pretty hard to hide a cruise ship from the public or conceal the fact that there is no cruise ship.

 

[Ralph Capeling]

Hon. Hulse Holds The Line: Says NCL In It For The Long Haul
posted (May 7, 2014)

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Earlier this week we told you about BTIA's lawsuit against the government for approving the Norwegian Cruise Lines Environmental Impact Assessment. No date for hearing has been set yet, but it's one more hurdle for the controversial project. So how long will Norwegian stick around to tough it out? Fact is, the cruise line wants the project active like yesterday – and in the banana republic calculus often employed by wealthy transnationals – nothing should get in the way of it. But, plenty has been getting in the way of this project which made us wonder, how much more can they take? Today, Minister Godwin Hulse who chairs the cabinet subcommittee on investment – held the official line: all is well, and all will end well:
Jules Vasquez
"From your communication with NCL, are they at a point of frustration, exasperation, because I know that they have certainly become impatient, because they need a front in the Western Caribbean."
Hon. Godwin Hulse - Head of Cabinet Sub-Committee on Investment
"I don't think they are tired at all. I think that they recognize that Government is fully on-board with them. I think we've had a win-win situation, an upfront discourse. There's been no 'hanky-panky', no waste of time. There's been nothing that's not transparent. They understand that; we understand that; and BTIA should start to understand that."

 

[flots am]

The fact is that the government has to answer to the people.

I'm not actually sure they do in Belize.

In any case, the people might be unhappy about it, but in the scheme of things, they care more about jobs, food, clean water and not getting murdered, than they do about whether a giant multi-national corporation wants to build something.

Regardless of any of the objections to the project, money moving in the economy creates jobs. It's impossible for it not to.