Best agency for learning Tech diving - criteria given - honest :)

[LiteHedded]

I don't see that I've "attacked" GUE at all ... nor do I have any negative perceptions about them. I simply don't see them as "the best" as universally as some others do. That's a very relative term, and what I believe is that all choices come with both upsides and downsides ... and what may be "the best" choice for you won't be for some other people. All I've been trying to do is provide some balance by pointing out some of the potential downsides, as I see them. Seems to me that a lot of folks who choose that route are very good at criticizing the shortcomings of other agencies ... but can't handle much at all when someone attempts to point out the possible downsides of the choices they made.

Every coin has two sides ... before making a purchase, it pays to look at both of them ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

---------- Post added April 3rd, 2015 at 05:30 AM ----------



... perhaps it's a European thing, because all of the tech agencies I've trained with ... NAUI, TDI, IANTD, and NSS-CDS ... promoted pretty much the same rig. Even my sidemount class (IANTD) wanted me in a configuration that provided a long hose on one cylinder.

I'd think that any dive that has a potential for a restriction should mandate the long hose ... unless you've got a redundant air source that's separable from the diver that can be safely handed off in an OOA situation.

Curious ... if twinsets are going OUT of fashion, how do you guys provide redundancy?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

everyone understands and can handle the downsides just fine dude. they wont teach me sidemount or solo diving. we all know that and are managing to handle it just fine

let it go. i'm sure your training was lovely

 

[Jack Hammer]

Most people agree that an END of 100' is the maximum that one should allow in technical training going back as far as Sheck Exley.

PADI Tec 50 = 50M/165 feet, END of 165'
TDI Deco Procedures = 45M/150, END of 150'
IANTD Advanced EANx Diver = 42M/140', END of 140'
NAUI Deep Diver = 40M/130', END of 130'
NAUI Helitrox =16M/150, END of 125'
TDI Helitrox = 45M/150', END of 120'

GUE Tech 1 = 51M/170' = END of 93.5'

You might want to check your sources. My TDI Deco Procedures class taught to use a best mix, not air, as I suspect many of the other agencies classes listed teach. For a dive to 150' EAN 25% gives an EAD of 141'.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

everyone understands and can handle the downsides just fine dude. they wont teach me sidemount or solo diving. we all know that and are managing to handle it just fine

let it go. i'm sure your training was lovely

... as long as people are going to direct comments to me, I'm going to respond to them ... and your choice to take this to a personal level tells me that you're not "handling the downsides just fine dude".

You and Ayisha have both now, multiple times, accused me of "attacking" GUE. I've done nothing of the sort. In fact, let's review some of my comments for factual content ...

GUE is great training if you're of a certain mindset ... but not everyone is.

Actually I do not ... in fact, I dive with many of them and consider our local GUE instructor to be a good personal friend. And frankly, I think our GUE community is way friendlier than what I saw down your way when I was traveling to Florida to dive the caves. In fact, I came home thinking "thank goodness our GUE folks aren't like that".

... all I'll say about that comment is that you guys are providing an adequate demonstration of my point ...

My story was intended to provide an example of why I believe that the training isn't necessarily the best approach for everyone ... and while all that training is helpful, it can sometimes miss the whole point of why we dive.

I guess I don't feel compelled to seek out the best instructors in the world ... if in fact they wouldn't be prepared to provide me the training I want to achieve my goals.

BMW is often touted as "the ultimate driving machine" ... but whether or not that's actually the case, not everyone wants or needs a BMW ...

I'm not in any way trying to suggest that there's anything wrong with GUE ... I'm simply saying that it really isn't for everybody, as some in here seem to believe. It's not a panacea for everything that's wrong with dive instruction. Like most other offerings, it has its niche and appeal for certain types of divers. For others, it really would not be an appropriate choice ... however much some of its adherents seem to believe it would be.

...

Since I choose not to wholeheartedly accept the GUE approach to diving, it's not for me ... that simple. Doesn't mean I see anything wrong with it ... just that it's not the best choice for where I want my diving to go. The training is fine ... excellent, in fact. But if you choose to have options like I do, it's going to leave out a lot of things that you're going to need to know ... because their standard response to those things is to not do them ...

I have no issues with the local GUE community. Many of them are friends and dive buddies. My decision not to pursue the training has nothing to do with them.

I'm telling you that, having tested those waters, the GUE approach to training wasn't to my taste ... it didn't offer what I was looking for. Simple as that.

... there is no "best" for everybody ... what's "best" for you may be a complete mismatch for someone else ...

Yes, the base education you get from GUE is outstanding ... I've said so repeatedly. It is not, however, either the only way to get outstanding training nor is it the best approach for everyone.

I have no bias against the GUE system ... I simply decided it wasn't the best choice for me.

You might be surprised to learn how many people I've steered in that direction over the years because I thought it was right for them. Ask TSandM, for example, who it was who first suggested to her that it would be a good fit for what she wanted to achieve ...

A significant number of my students ended up taking GUE training ... some going well into the Tech and Cave classes. I've been told by multiple GUE instructors that they come to the program pretty well-prepared. They should be ... most of it's just fundamental common sense safe diving practices.

All I can say is that you guys have some interesting ideas about what constitutes an "attack".

... and while I wouldn't describe my training as "lovely", I do consider it was quality ... and that it gave me everything I wanted and allowed me to properly prepare for all the dives I've ever wanted to do. What more would anyone want from their training?

Not everyone wants or needs "the best" ... whatever that's supposed to mean. What they should instead be striving for is what best suits their needs and their goals ... and those aren't necessarily going to be the same for someone else as it is for you ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[LiteHedded]

i never said you attacked GUE or me. what i've said is that you don't really know what you're talking about with regards to GUE training and your posts aren't relevant to OP.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

i never said you attacked GUE or me. what i've said is that you don't really know what you're talking about with regards to GUE training and your posts aren't relevant to OP.

Oh?

putting aside the fact that you've taken zero (big goose egg) gue technical training and therefore have zero clue what's covered and what isn't, you're saying the same thing i am but your bias against the GUE system is showing

... I'm still waiting for an explanation of the "Black Ice" comment ... without some context I can only believe it was intended to be insulting ... and for damn sure it wasn't relevant to the OP.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[LiteHedded]

... I'm still waiting for an explanation of the "Black Ice" comment ... without some context I can only believe it was intended to be insulting ... and for damn sure it wasn't relevant to the OP.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

just a local group of divers with similar prejudices about GUE.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

just a local group of divers with similar prejudices about GUE.

... ever wonder how many of those prejudices are fueled by some of the attitudes I see on this board rather regularly? You should be.

Back when I first started diving we had a group of GUE divers who used to hang out at our local training site and make a point of publicly snickering at all the OW students trudging past them with snorkels and split fins in hand. The rest of the dive community called them "The Posse" ... because they were the self-appointed arbiters of all that was wrong with scuba instruction. They helped create a lot of prejudices that have taken years and a lot of effort to dispel. My trips to Florida showed me a lot of the same thing happening down there ... only in some cases way worse than anything we had to deal with in my neighborhood. Maybe if you guys were a bit less judgmental about everyone else, people would be less inclined to return the sentiment ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[boulderjohn]

You might want to check your sources. My TDI Deco Procedures class taught to use a best mix, not air, as I suspect many of the other agencies classes listed teach. For a dive to 150' EAN 25% gives an EAD of 141'.

END and EAD are not the same thing.

 

[LiteHedded]

... ever wonder how many of those prejudices are fueled by some of the attitudes I see on this board rather regularly? You should be.

Back when I first started diving we had a group of GUE divers who used to hang out at our local training site and make a point of publicly snickering at all the OW students trudging past them with snorkels and split fins in hand. The rest of the dive community called them "The Posse" ... because they were the self-appointed arbiters of all that was wrong with scuba instruction. They helped create a lot of prejudices that have taken years and a lot of effort to dispel. My trips to Florida showed me a lot of the same thing happening down there ... only in some cases way worse than anything we had to deal with in my neighborhood. Maybe if you guys were a bit less judgmental about everyone else, people would be less inclined to return the sentiment ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

is that what you see me doing? snickering at open water divers?

all i did was answer his question. i suggested one of my past instructors who happens to be in his area all the time

then you chime in with your nonsense. i pointed out that i thought your impression was based on encounters with certain groups of GUE divers and you come back with 'oh no nothing to do with that. and by the way you florida guys are way worse, blah blah blah' and imply that i have difficulty comprehending that gue training isn't for everyone. did you bother to point out to the others in the thread that TDI training isn't for everyone?

argue with someone who is being a bit of a jerk and all of the sudden i'm attacking non-gue divers and suggesting that all other training is crap (a significant portion, and some of the best of my training was IANTD)
do you ever think it's people like YOU who perpetuate these stereotypes? rhetorical question. i'm sure you do not.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

argue with someone who is being a bit of a jerk and all of the sudden i'm attacking non-gue divers and suggesting that all other training is crap (a significant portion, and some of the best of my training was IANTD)
do you ever think it's people like YOU who perpetuate these stereotypes? rhetorical question. i'm sure you do not.

... so now you're calling me a jerk? Nice ...

I don't think I have anything whatsoever to do with the prejudices of people in Florida ... and those prejudices, in both directions, were extremely obvious when I came there for a dive vacation. They left me with the impression that you folks don't really WANT to be friendly with each other.

Agency wars suck ... and completely miss the point of why most folks took up diving in the first place.

As for relevence to the OP ... I'd think he'd want to consider that aspect of his associations with the people he'd be signing up to dive with ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)