Trip report for Rangiroa and Fakarava in French Polynesia

[qwimjim]

When they move Bora Bora to Palau, I think you're theory will have some merit. Comparing the low end doesn't shed much light on the issues. While there are the odd few who would sleep in a sleeping bag on the beach because they could do it for free in FP, most aren't interested. Same thing as saying NYC isn't an expensive city , if you qualify your statement by saying the NYC YMCA only charges $12 a night. And I think you're missing point number one that flying to Tahiti is only half way, you've got another leg still to pay for and point number two the cost of travel isn't just the ticket price, true costs are the entire costs of travel including wear and tear and total hours invested waiting for connections, missed pre-paid hotel fees due to connections missed due to multiple individual tickets on multiple airlines...I can assure you I wouldn't be playing the multiple airline game on multiple legs to FP, and in reality nobody else wants to either, that's why FP is considered by travel agents to be the 2nd most expensive destination in the world for vacations. I don't know if Palau is considered a honey moon destination but FP certainly is, as I said FP is a vacation destination not a diving destination. The words French Polynesia and "Once in a lifetime" trip are said in the same sentence often because of the cost, I'm not sure Palau is thought of this way.

But this is to your benefit, go see it now while this is still the case and enjoy the unspoiled, wilderness that FP offers divers who invest the time and money to get there.

I'm not sure I understand your logic. If someone is rich and money is no problem, then they wouldn't care if it cost more to go to French Polynesia vs Palau, they would simply go where the diving is best, period. For the same reason people go to Palau instead of Cozumel.

And now if money is not growing on trees and you are on a budget, my point is simply that French Polynesia does not cost more than Palau. I tried to edit my post because I forgot to insert the cost of the lagoon pass for domestic flights but the site wasn't working earlier today. At 419 euro thats $485 USD so plus $1200 for the flight to HNL/PPT you're still at $1685. You could easily afford a night in HNL going and coming to give you plenty of breathing room on connections and get to visit Honololu for two days and still come in under the cost of a flight to Koror. So the flights cost the same.

I don't suggest anyone sleep in a tent, but at an average $300/night for a couple in a half board pension, I can't imagine it would be that much cheaper in Koror for hotel and meals. And then you're in a not so charming town (Koror) vs living on a beach paradise. And the diving is more expensive on Palau. So why go to Palau? It doesn't save you money, the boat rides are much longer to the dive sites, the dive sites are much more crowded, and the diving appears to be not as good.. so what am I missing?

Seriously, I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just trying to understand.

 

[mmmbelows]

I don't think there is much to understand, your question why one is a dive destination and why one is not, the answers are simply that one is a dive destination and the other is not. FP is a vacation destination.

So why go to Palau? It doesn't save you money, the boat rides are much longer to the dive sites, the dive sites are much more crowded, and the diving appears to be not as good.. so what am I missing?

Again, I think you're comparing apples to oranges, you seem to want to paint FP with a small brush in comparison to Palau, correct me if I'm wrong but Palau's diving experiences are pretty localize with Palau being a single island group and FP being 5 island groups spread over 2000 square miles. It's also a tremendous expenditure of effort and expense to go diving in FP. Even the inter-island hopping is a hardship for divers due to the weight limits and the instability of the schedules.

You could easily afford a night in HNL going and coming to give you plenty of breathing room on connections and get to visit Honololu for two days and still come in under the cost of a flight to Koror. So the flights cost the same.

As I said

point number two the cost of travel isn't just the ticket price

While you may have unlimited time on your hands, many don't. To many time is money and to many there are limits to vacation days available, what they can put young children through and many other factors that aren't on your priority of the lowest ticket price no matter how long of what you put yourself through to accomplish it. You're convinced FP is not an expensive destination that's fine, hardly anyone will agree with you, especially anyone in the travel industry since they continually rate FP as one of the top three most expensive destinations in the world.

But it does no one any good to beat a dead horse, if FP is cheap for you to travel to, all the more reason for you to go there and enjoy it.

 

[qwimjim]

You keep throwing out these labels "vacation destination" and "dive destination", they're both dive destinations! Your labels are meaningless. You keep saying that FP is 2000 square miles despite the fact that we are -specifically- talking about two islands only that are a 45 minute flight apart. No different than say Bali and Komodo. You keep saying its a tremendous expenditure to go diving in FP when I've broken the costs down twice now and clearly show that it is no more expensive than Palau, and no more expensive than Raja Ampat either. Both extremely popular world class destinations.

You seem fixated on some quote you read in a magazine that told you FP is the most expensive place on earth instead of simply processing the actual facts for what they are. Yes for someone who just wants to lounge on the beach and their choices are Mexico or Hawaii, then yes going to Bora Bora is ridiculously expensive. But that's not what we're talking about, we're comparing world class diving destinations. If you're deciding between two weeks of diving in Palau, Raja Ampat, etc.. then Rangiroa/Fakarava is NOT more expensive. This is indisputable, the numbers are there. Scroll up. It's simple math.

Will it take more time to fly to Rangiroa than Palau from LAX? Probably not. And it's definitely less time than going to Sorong, another very popular high diving destination.

LAX to ROR is minimum 16h flying time with minimum 2 connections (very few exceptions)
LAX to RGI is minimum 17h flying time with minimum 2 connections.
LAX to SOQ is minimum 24h flying time with minimum 3 connections.

All of these flights can be done with awesome or terrible layovers. So, for the 4th or 5th time, and if someone else wants to tackle this question because I'm not sure mmmbelows can wrap their head around this.. given that it's NOT more expensive, and travel time is similar, and topside scenery appears to be more attractive (beach vs town), and dive sites are less crowded, and diving appears to be superior.. why does Palau seem to get 50 times more visits than Rangiroa/Fakarava?

I don't think there is much to understand, your question why one is a dive destination and why one is not, the answers are simply that one is a dive destination and the other is not. FP is a vacation destination.



Again, I think you're comparing apples to oranges, you seem to want to paint FP with a small brush in comparison to Palau, correct me if I'm wrong but Palau's diving experiences are pretty localize with Palau being a single island group and FP being 5 island groups spread over 2000 square miles. It's also a tremendous expenditure of effort and expense to go diving in FP. Even the inter-island hopping is a hardship for divers due to the weight limits and the instability of the schedules.



As I said



While you may have unlimited time on your hands, many don't. To many time is money and to many there are limits to vacation days available, what they can put young children through and many other factors that aren't on your priority of the lowest ticket price no matter how long of what you put yourself through to accomplish it. You're convinced FP is not an expensive destination that's fine, hardly anyone will agree with you, especially anyone in the travel industry since they continually rate FP as one of the top three most expensive destinations in the world.

But it does no one any good to beat a dead horse, if FP is cheap for you to travel to, all the more reason for you to go there and enjoy it.

 

[mmmbelows]

Sorry you aren't getting the answer you want to hear, but I think part of the problem is you're changing the question as you go along.

At one point you were asking about Palau versus the island of Tahiti....

Tahiti is no more expensive to get to than Palau

Another time you were asking about Palau compared to the entire region of French Polynesia

I do find it strange how Palau gets mentioned SO often and French Polynesia seems to barely be on anyone's radar, they're both expensive destinations.

Sorry you're getting frustrated, but the answers you've been given have been appropriate to the questions you've asked. Keep in mind French Polynesia is the region, Tahiti is just one island and Rangiroa and Fakarava are two different places within the Tuamotus Islands of French Polynesia. If it's now specifically about Rangiroa or Fakarava then the answer changes again...

Why does Palau get more divers than Rangiroa? Again, at the risk of upsetting you, as far as Rangiroa goes, it's remote, it's expensive to get to, it's a pain in the neck to get to and it's basically like being a cast-a-way on Gilligan's island, it's about 5 miles by maybe 1/2 mile wide flat motu in some places you can easily see the water on both sides at the same time. Even though Rangiroa is one of the largest atolls in the world, with over 400 motus making up the atoll, there is really nothing to do there, you could go see the church or go to the market and buy a soda. It does have a small airport, but locals will out number tourist on the plane probably 4 to 1 if not more. If you want remote, you've got it in regard to Rangiroa. Fakarava, I've not been to yet.

 

[Wingy]

Feel like we are beating our heads against the wall here. Its not just airfare...its not just distance..FWIW Palau is way more expensive airfare wise for me than FP at the moment but that is just getting to the jump off point - Tahiti.

This is one article I have read that is making me reconsider Palau for the moment Chinese descend on remote Palau as wanderlust deepens - Business Insider

You cant just compare destinations using a cost of airfare and accomodation costs when they are two different parts of the world with two vastly different cultures.

 

[mmmbelows]

This is one article I have read that is making me reconsider Palau for the moment Chinese descend on remote Palau as wanderlust deepens - Business Insider

Wow, that article says the government of Palau already cut the amount of Chinese charters for next month in half due to the Chinese being "ecologically challenged"

On the streets of Koror, some accused Chinese people of being noisy and disrespectful towards the environment."They wreck corals and throw their rubbish in the sea," chided Norman, a taxi driver.
In another recent example, a Chinese tour operator named "Yellow Skin Tour" caused outrage in Palau with leaflets including photos of grinning Chinese tourists holding up turtles they had removed from the water -– in one case by its flippers.
Residents have also accused Chinese tourists of being responsible for the deaths of some jellyfish at the natural wonder "Jellyfish Lake".
Visitors are encouraged to marvel at the harmless creatures by floating on the surface, but some locals complain that many Chinese lack swimming skills and thrash around, disturbing the wildlife.
The Palau government is exploring ways to try to stem the tide of Chinese tourists to the western Pacific Ocean archipelago and this week said the number of charter flights from China would be halved next month.

 

[qwimjim]

Feel like we are beating our heads against the wall here. Its not just airfare...its not just distance..FWIW Palau is way more expensive airfare wise for me than FP at the moment but that is just getting to the jump off point - Tahiti.

And then you have a one hour flight to Rangiroa... you would settle for inferior diving just to avoid a one hour domestic flight? I'm assuming then that you would forgo diving anywhere in Indonesia or the Philippines as they all require a domestic flight (or two), as well.

You cant just compare destinations using a cost of airfare and accomodation costs when they are two different parts of the world with two vastly different cultures.

This makes zero sense. If you want to compare the cost of one trip vs another what does geographic location and culture have to do with anything? I've compared the cost of airfare, accommodation (breakfast and dinner included with most pensions), dive costs.. the prices are the same, in fact Palau works out to be a little more expensive. If you are on a -budget- and don't need 5 star resort/hotel, a trip to Rangiroa/Fakarava will not cost you more than a trip to Palau. Period. The numbers don't lie, if I'm wrong show me the numbers.

We've also covered travel time, it's the same amount of airtime and the same number of connections to get to Koror or Rangiroa. Like travelling anywhere you line up your international flight so it works with your domestic flight or vice versa. This is not unique to French Polynesia. Anyone diving Bali, Komodo, or Raja Ampat has to coordinate international and domestic flights so time is not wasted. And their travel time is even longer.

---------- Post added May 4th, 2015 at 04:46 PM ----------

Sorry you aren't getting the answer you want to hear, but I think part of the problem is you're changing the question as you go along.

At one point you were asking about Palau versus the island of Tahiti....



Another time you were asking about Palau compared to the entire region of French Polynesia



Sorry you're getting frustrated, but the answers you've been given have been appropriate to the questions you've asked. Keep in mind French Polynesia is the region, Tahiti is just one island and Rangiroa and Fakarava are two different places within the Tuamotus Islands of French Polynesia. If it's now specifically about Rangiroa or Fakarava then the answer changes again...

Why does Palau get more divers than Rangiroa? Again, at the risk of upsetting you, as far as Rangiroa goes, it's remote, it's expensive to get to, it's a pain in the neck to get to and it's basically like being a cast-a-way on Gilligan's island, it's about 5 miles by maybe 1/2 mile wide flat motu in some places you can easily see the water on both sides at the same time. Even though Rangiroa is one of the largest atolls in the world, with over 400 motus making up the atoll, there is really nothing to do there, you could go see the church or go to the market and buy a soda. It does have a small airport, but locals will out number tourist on the plane probably 4 to 1 if not more. If you want remote, you've got it in regard to Rangiroa. Fakarava, I've not been to yet.

The thread is about Rangiroa and Fakarava, at no point were any other islands mentioned. I'm sorry I used "French Polynesia" 3 times out of 70, I assumed we were all on the same page and that the two were interchangeable.

So now you're saying the reason is because Rangiroa is remote.. and Palau isn't? Raja Ampat isn't? Or that there's not much to do, but what is there to do when you're on a liveaboard? You can't even go for a walk, there's certainly no church or market to visit.. and there's no shortage of people on liveaboards. And ultimately who cares if there's nothing to do besides diving, isn't that the point? Most of us fly to these faraway expensive places to dive and sleep no?

So it's not more expensive. Fact.
It's not more travel time. Fact.
It's remote but less remote than a liveaboard. Fact.

 

[mmmbelows]

I think you have some issues.... you ask questions and request advice and then beat the people kind enough or maybe it's dumb enough to respond to you. I unfortunately replied to your whale shark questions in the Mexico forums today too, I can't wait for the berating you're sure to hand out there too.

We obviously don't have the answer you want, since you've rejected and argued every facet of the answers provided. Everyone would probably be better off if you just tell us the answer you want to hear.

Thanxs.

 

[diver 85]

Can't wait to go(next week) & get back 10 days later to & from Rangiroa----------so I can get in on this cat fight.................


EDIT---------j/k'ing(of course)....been following this thread for a few days----reading as much as I can about Rangi for upcoming trip-& some of the posts have been 'good ones'......

 

[qwimjim]

I think you have some issues.... you ask questions and request advice and then beat the people kind enough or maybe it's dumb enough to respond to you. I unfortunately replied to your whale shark questions in the Mexico forums today too, I can't wait for the berating you're sure to hand out there too.

We obviously don't have the answer you want, since you've rejected and argued every facet of the answers provided. Everyone would probably be better off if you just tell us the answer you want to hear.

Thanxs.

It's not that they're not what I want to hear, it's that your answers are illogical and inaccurate. You are spreading misinformation, keep telling me I'm wrong, and have yet to back up anything you've said.

---------- Post added May 4th, 2015 at 07:55 PM ----------

Can't wait to go(next week) & get back 10 days later to & from Rangiroa----------so I can get in on this cat fight.................


EDIT---------j/k'ing(of course)....been following this thread for a few days----reading as much as I can about Rangi for upcoming trip-& some of the posts have been 'good ones'......

Awesome Have a great trip!