Online Nitrox Certification

[kelemvor]

I'm sure you do. Just like lots of test subjects get better even when given a placebo. Don't underestimate the healing power of the mind.



There's an irony in your post, do you see it? Medical and scientific studies, when done properly, take the placebo into account using a "control", and yet you discount those studies while ignoring the placebo effect when coming to your own personal scientific conclusion.



True, unless you're using doubles or a rebreather and the best mix is too 02 rich for your depth and time and you get an 02 hit.

It could be the placebo effect. I don't believe it is, as I mentioned. The study was fairly limited in some very significant ways. The details of the most recent study on the subject have been discussed ad nauseam here on SB in another thread or three. Placebo or not, I'm happier spending the small amount of money for nitrox. I have every intention of using it on every dive that I can, and I try to encourage others to do the same.

 

[northernone]

I've not carded for a nitrox fill. Though I have been for o2. In those cases it would not have mattered who issued the card as the fill station was simply doing due diligence for liability.

Time with an experienced instructor is always valuable. I'd recommend finding an independent one and offer to prestudy the physical copy of the materials and see they'd do the in person aspects of the training. Might be pleasing on the budget.

.. I'd rather read a book and print my own card before I'd pay for a bogus online cert such as SDA.

As for the online + dive shop option I've always seen it to be at a premium cost for the convenience.

Regarding training while south it might be a good option. A very compact and simple course wouldn't eat into vacation time much. Provided you're ok with the price an level of training quality.

Cheers,
Cameron

 

[ljpm]

Let's clarify what happened.

Did you take the online course through the same agency through which the LDS certified you? If so, something is wrong and you should contact the agency. The LDS should have a charge for the certification in addition to the online material, since they are reviewing the materials with you, giving you the exam, and teaching you how to analyze, but it should not be a full course price.

Did you take the online course through Scuba Divers of America and then try to get the dive shop to accept it? In that case, you were ripped off by taking a fraudulent course from a fraudulent agency. In that case, you should contact the Arizona Attorney General about the fraud. As with all things in scuba, though, don't hold your breath. The Arizona AG (probably not the present one, though) has been contacted before and does not seem to have much of an interest.

PADI has a disclaimer on its website that clearly states that they do not recognize anything produced by SDA. Of course, nobody ever goes to an agency website looking for something like that.

It was through PADI eLearning.
It was a PADI shop.

How do you actually justify calling Scuba Divers of America a fraudulent agency. They provide a service for a fee. The fact that PADI wants to control their Oligopoly and not honor the cert card of Scuba Divers of America is not Scuba Divers of America's fault. I didn't realize certification agencies needed approval from PADI to operate.

 

[kelemvor]

It was through PADI eLearning.
It was a PADI shop.

How do you actually justify calling Scuba Divers of America a fraudulent agency. They provide a service for a fee. The fact that PADI wants to control their Oligopoly and not honor the cert card of Scuba Divers of America is not Scuba Divers of America's fault. I didn't realize certification agencies needed approval from PADI to operate.

Read the details about Scuba Divers of America:
SDA - Scuba Divers of America (Fact or fiction)
Scuba Divers of America?

Nobody needs anything from PADI to operate. Maybe they're very common in your location, but in the area where I live PADI is one of the less common agencies I see at dive shops. There's a lot of NAUI in my area. Probably because I'm around 25 miles from NAUI HQ (I think). There are 153 active scuba certification agencies. SDA is not one of them. If you look at the SDA website, they tell you to use the PADI referral system for your tests/dives and to get a certification card issued. However I'm pretty sure that each agency only takes referrals from that same agency. You can take online classes with SDA, but they don't offer testing or check out dives. Unless someone does indeed take referrals from SDA, that means you can't get a certification card by taking their classes. You'd probably be better off just printing a card on an inkjet printer and having it laminated.

PADI specifically disavows SDA right on their website: SPECIAL ADVISORIES – DIVE CENTERS AND RESORTS

 

[boulderjohn]

It was through PADI eLearning.
It was a PADI shop.

How do you actually justify calling Scuba Divers of America a fraudulent agency. They provide a service for a fee. The fact that PADI wants to control their Oligopoly and not honor the cert card of Scuba Divers of America is not Scuba Divers of America's fault. I didn't realize certification agencies needed approval from PADI to operate.

That is a good question, and, to be honest, I cannot give a totally clear answer because I don't know all the rules. I can, though, give some information.

I think one rule might be (not sure) that your agency home address not be a vacant lot. I don't know how that rule would work, but I would guess that would be an issue.

When UTD became an agency out of nowhere, one thing it had to do was become insured. That requires an investigation from the potential insurer to determine if you are an acceptable insurance risk. I know there was an issue with that because some of their standards were different from existing agency policies. One specific example was their failure to teach CESA. They eventually overcame that problem and gained insurance. Thus, their agency is insured, and their instructors can be insured individually.

Once they became an agency, other agencies immediately recognized their certifications. I have certified technical divers who crossed over from UTD, and PADI spelled out to me exactly what I could credit them for based upon their UTD certification level (and why). Other agencies do not recognize SDA's certifications. I do not know the details as to why that would be, but they don't.

Their website says that their online academic program is recognized by all other agencies, and students can take their certificates of completion to any other agency and have it accepted. That is not true. No agency accepts their online work, and the PADI website says that specifically.

Their website used to have a list of dive shops around the nation that they claimed had specifically agreed to accept their certifications. Several were in my home state of Colorado. I called each one of them and asked about it. Not one of them had ever heard of SDA. Not one of them had any idea they were listed in this partnership. Not one of them said they would accept anything from them. I assume there were complaints made after that, because SDA changed the wording on that page, and instead of listing them as partner dive shops, they said that these were high quality dive shops that they recommended so that students could complete their training with them. It was the same list, but this time it did not overtly claim they had any kind of formal agreement among them.

So, no, I don't know exactly why they are not recognized as a legitimate agency; I just know that they aren't. I know that as soon as other agencies came into existence, PADI and other agencies acknowledged their legitimacy, but that has not happened in this case. If this sounds like the kind of operation with which you want to do business, go for it.

 

[Adam Grose]

It was through PADI eLearning.
It was a PADI shop.

How do you actually justify calling Scuba Divers of America a fraudulent agency. They provide a service for a fee. The fact that PADI wants to control their Oligopoly and not honor the cert card of Scuba Divers of America is not Scuba Divers of America's fault. I didn't realize certification agencies needed approval from PADI to operate.

I was under the impression that other agencies do not recognize SDA c-cards either, not *just* PADI (Although PADI says on their site that they do not accept SDA academics for their OW program: SPECIAL ADVISORIES – DIVE CENTERS AND RESORTS). Just my 2 cents worth.

Adam

 

[boulderjohn]

However I'm pretty sure that each agency only takes referrals from that same agency.

It's complicated.

Many agencies participate in the universal referral program. If you go to an SSI shop for the academic work and the pool work, you can take a universal referral to a NAUI operation in the Caribbean. They will do the OW dives and send your referral back to your original SSI shop, which will give you an SSI certification, with your pool instructor as the certifying instructor.

PADI does not officially participate in the universal referral program because they believe there is potential liability involved when the certifying instructor never saw the required checkout dives, which is where you demonstrate that you are worthy of certification. If an SSI student brought a universal referral form to a PADI shop in the Caribbean, PADI's recommendation is that the Caribbean shop take the steps to cross the student over and issue a PADI certification. That is only a recommendation, though. PADI tells instructors that if they are comfortable with the potential liability issues, they can participate in the universal referral system.

 

[ljpm]

I'm just playing devils advocate here. Before I started reading this thread I didn't know who Scuba Divers of America were. I still don't. I do have an issue with self regulating nature of the dive industry being controlled by the corporations making money from the industry. This is a major conflict of interest. When I started diving a few years ago I mistakenly took PADI at their name and had assumed it WAS a professional association of diving instructor. IT IS NOT. It is a corporation. A corporation with the goal of making money. With regard to Scuba Divers of America, why does PADI tell their affiliates not to honor their card? Is it because the training is inadequate, or is it because they offer the training at a better price.

But this is a topic for another time and another thread.

 

[boulderjohn]

T IS NOT. It is a corporation. A corporation with the goal of making money.

Yep, it sure is.

Can you tell me the difference between a profit making organization and a non-profit organization? Just for comparison sake, compare a profit making corporation like PADI to a non-profit organization, the the National Football League. Or you can compare it with other major non-profits, making sure to include a reference to the salary structure of its employees, particularly the directors.

You may be shocked to learn that the instructors for all agencies are paid when they instruct, unless they choose to donate their services from time to time, as I did when I certified friends and family members. Similarly, people who sell you cans of paint in a paint store are also paid for the work they do.

 

[Doby45]

It is a corporation. A corporation with the goal of making money.

I don't think you will find a single dive business that is not looking to make money. That does not change the validity of their purpose in the industry. I know we all bust PADI's chops from time to time, but damn dude they need to make money like everyone else.