@Geobound Thank you very much for your response, it certainly helps to hear that everyone on here pretty much has the same opinion - this was not okay and find another shop. Thank you for your advice, I will definitely look into getting a private instructor, or at least a small group with more pool time.
Couldn't complete OWD, distraught & lost all confidence
- Thread starter bee123
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Thank you very much, yes this has certainly helped me a lot. I am looking into completing my certification somewhere else. I have lost all confidence in this shop/instructors, they haven't even managed to call me when they said they would, I doubt I will get treated any better if I go back to complete the dives there. And I don't even feel confident in my skills to do that anyway, not after this experience. So better start off from scratch somewhere else and get proper training. Thank you again
1) I don’t know the SSI OW curriculum but I would be very surprised if they are not violating regulations. If you are so inclined, email or call SSI about it.
2) If you can repeat for free, tell them you want to go with the instructor you like. Having an instructor you are comfortable with makes a big difference.
2) If you can repeat for free, tell them you want to go with the instructor you like. Having an instructor you are comfortable with makes a big difference.
@bee123
Just to pick up on something in your first post about repeating skills.
Even if you complete the skill correctly or nearly correctly on your first attempt, a good instructor will get you to repeat it. We're not only looking for the skill to be done correctly but also that its done smoothly and that the student is comfortable doing it. We don't want you to get stressed with minor issues (like weight belt or mask clear
Now is appear from your account you were getting a bit stressed at the repeats. Perhaps if the instructor had given you more counselling afterwards you would have understood and realised what they were doing.
I'm not defending the instructor, just explaining the process.
I can fully comprehend what you went through. When I took my OW in 2007, A had a perfect 1st day in the pool, the 2nd day not so good. I really messed up my mask clearing continually. This played on my mind and I had a melt down on OW refusing to touch my mask. The problem was in my head
With some advice and talking to I managed to perform the skill eventually - but in hindsight I shouldn't' have passed.
For my first 50 - 100 dives I would avoid clearing my mask - even for a defog. The longer it went on the worse I got, My refusal to clear my mask took teh enjoyment away from quite a few dives. I eventually sought out some help and got some 1 on 1 - hey presto! mask clear was easy.. I wondered what all the fuss was!!
Fast forward to me eventually becoming an instructor - Mask removal and no mask swim is my favourite skill to demonstrate, because I know what I went through - which was silly looking back. All I needed to have done was relax and practice (with a sympathetic instructor).
Don't give up. Step back, re group and try again with another store...
Just to pick up on something in your first post about repeating skills.
Even if you complete the skill correctly or nearly correctly on your first attempt, a good instructor will get you to repeat it. We're not only looking for the skill to be done correctly but also that its done smoothly and that the student is comfortable doing it. We don't want you to get stressed with minor issues (like weight belt or mask clear
Now is appear from your account you were getting a bit stressed at the repeats. Perhaps if the instructor had given you more counselling afterwards you would have understood and realised what they were doing.
I'm not defending the instructor, just explaining the process.
I can fully comprehend what you went through. When I took my OW in 2007, A had a perfect 1st day in the pool, the 2nd day not so good. I really messed up my mask clearing continually. This played on my mind and I had a melt down on OW refusing to touch my mask. The problem was in my head
With some advice and talking to I managed to perform the skill eventually - but in hindsight I shouldn't' have passed.
For my first 50 - 100 dives I would avoid clearing my mask - even for a defog. The longer it went on the worse I got, My refusal to clear my mask took teh enjoyment away from quite a few dives. I eventually sought out some help and got some 1 on 1 - hey presto! mask clear was easy.. I wondered what all the fuss was!!
Fast forward to me eventually becoming an instructor - Mask removal and no mask swim is my favourite skill to demonstrate, because I know what I went through - which was silly looking back. All I needed to have done was relax and practice (with a sympathetic instructor).
Don't give up. Step back, re group and try again with another store...
I know there are a few on here from Australia. If you add your location, they may be able to advise on a good local shop/instructor. (You might have to put a new post asking for help titled Australia.)
The other potential option, is if you can find a BSAC club locally. Generally, BSAC clubs are members clubs, they are all different, but normally part of being a member is the agreement that they run diver training, from novice to advanced.
My club, we have a pool weekly for an hour. We don't really care if it takes you 5 hours of pool time or 50 to learn. The instructors are volunteers, generally they are there every week.
Take the positives from the experience. You are far wiser, you have had some tuition. You know what you now want, where you feel you have concerns. A better idea how you would like to progress.
You can have a proper dialogue with the shop. A good facility will get the chief instructor, to have a proper conversation with you. I would ask to talk to your potential instructor. See if they listen, if they discuss properly with you your concerns, and if they attempt to plan an approach that gives you confidence.
You will probably find, if you have confidence and are comfortable with the instructor, that everything falls into place.
Its not unusual to have to work at some skills to perfect them. Or perhaps more importantly, to develop your own confidence that you can do the skill well, 'correctly, comfortably and confidently'.
The other potential option, is if you can find a BSAC club locally. Generally, BSAC clubs are members clubs, they are all different, but normally part of being a member is the agreement that they run diver training, from novice to advanced.
My club, we have a pool weekly for an hour. We don't really care if it takes you 5 hours of pool time or 50 to learn. The instructors are volunteers, generally they are there every week.
Take the positives from the experience. You are far wiser, you have had some tuition. You know what you now want, where you feel you have concerns. A better idea how you would like to progress.
You can have a proper dialogue with the shop. A good facility will get the chief instructor, to have a proper conversation with you. I would ask to talk to your potential instructor. See if they listen, if they discuss properly with you your concerns, and if they attempt to plan an approach that gives you confidence.
You will probably find, if you have confidence and are comfortable with the instructor, that everything falls into place.
Its not unusual to have to work at some skills to perfect them. Or perhaps more importantly, to develop your own confidence that you can do the skill well, 'correctly, comfortably and confidently'.
The Chairman
Chairman of the Board
Please find someone else.
Two 3 to 4 hour sessions are my absolute minimum. You need at least that amount of time to get comfortable and learn control. Ask any prospective dive shop about their minimums before you sign up with them. Even then, don't allow yourself to be "pushed" into the next step until you feel ready. If you feel you need more time in the pool, ask for it. Offer to pay extra for it, if need be. I don't let my students go into OW until they can do every skill easily while remaining neutral and horizontal. Only then are you really ready to make the next step.It doesn't take that much longer if your instructor knows how.
Hey you can always fly me out for a week or two.
I'd love to see Australia! I'd even teach your class for free.
Hey Bee123,
I worked for fifteen years as a part-time divemaster and assistant instructor. I worked with many instructors, and saw first hand their strengths and weaknesses. The problems you experienced and the situations you describe I've seen so many times. The frustration and the tears.
It brings to mind a particular student in one of the OW classes I was assigned to. Like you, she had a great passion for diving and was committed to earning her certification. She got through the academic portion of her training with ease, but as her in-water training progressed she kept encountering obstacles. We divemasters and instructors had a term for people like her, "train wreck".
She could not master a single skill at first. She seemed to lack all coordination and awareness in the water. We had to go through the routines over and over with her, as the other students in the class patiently waited. Two hour pool sessions dragged into four and five hour marathons. She was no better during her ocean dives. Added to the mix now was her inability to equalize her ears.
At one point, on the surface after one of her attempts to equalize, I kinda lost my temper with her. I pointed out how she was holding back the rest of the class, and how she needed to pull herself together and get through her problems, or quit. She listened to what I said, and even thanked me later... but she kept failing underwater.
Finally the instructor sent her to the beach so the rest of the class could finish with their training.
But she didn't give up. The shop we worked for found another instructor willing to do private lessons with her. Eventually under that instructor she completed her certification, and went on to take more classes. She started to show up for the shop's boats and beach dive trips. Gradually, through simple perseverance, she mastered her issues, gained experience, and started to become a competent diver. And all the time she was truly loving her diving.
She never stopped taking dive classes. She kept improving, and we started seeing her making more and more diving friends and buddies. She became a divemaster, much to our astonishment, and joined the staff of our dive shop. Then she took the big step and became an instructor… and a very good instructor at that.
And stranger than anything for me, several times I was assigned to work under her as a divemaster to help her with open water classes.
Wow... didn't see that coming.
Don't give up. Just get through the training. You'll learn more in your first twenty dives than any class could ever teach you.
K
I worked for fifteen years as a part-time divemaster and assistant instructor. I worked with many instructors, and saw first hand their strengths and weaknesses. The problems you experienced and the situations you describe I've seen so many times. The frustration and the tears.
It brings to mind a particular student in one of the OW classes I was assigned to. Like you, she had a great passion for diving and was committed to earning her certification. She got through the academic portion of her training with ease, but as her in-water training progressed she kept encountering obstacles. We divemasters and instructors had a term for people like her, "train wreck".
She could not master a single skill at first. She seemed to lack all coordination and awareness in the water. We had to go through the routines over and over with her, as the other students in the class patiently waited. Two hour pool sessions dragged into four and five hour marathons. She was no better during her ocean dives. Added to the mix now was her inability to equalize her ears.
At one point, on the surface after one of her attempts to equalize, I kinda lost my temper with her. I pointed out how she was holding back the rest of the class, and how she needed to pull herself together and get through her problems, or quit. She listened to what I said, and even thanked me later... but she kept failing underwater.
Finally the instructor sent her to the beach so the rest of the class could finish with their training.
But she didn't give up. The shop we worked for found another instructor willing to do private lessons with her. Eventually under that instructor she completed her certification, and went on to take more classes. She started to show up for the shop's boats and beach dive trips. Gradually, through simple perseverance, she mastered her issues, gained experience, and started to become a competent diver. And all the time she was truly loving her diving.
She never stopped taking dive classes. She kept improving, and we started seeing her making more and more diving friends and buddies. She became a divemaster, much to our astonishment, and joined the staff of our dive shop. Then she took the big step and became an instructor… and a very good instructor at that.
And stranger than anything for me, several times I was assigned to work under her as a divemaster to help her with open water classes.
Wow... didn't see that coming.
Don't give up. Just get through the training. You'll learn more in your first twenty dives than any class could ever teach you.
K
caruso
Banned
Clearly were rushed and were not given a lot of time to learn and perform various skills and drills. But nowadays, divers can get certified in a weekend, following little to no coursework or pool work and the vast majority of those divers get through it ok and do not contribute any more to the diving accident statistics than any other divers.
Sure you can take a private course where you are the instructor's only focus, and that certainly will help. But you also need to realize that you are somewhat prone to anxiety and even panic and this is something you need to deal with.
Sure you can take a private course where you are the instructor's only focus, and that certainly will help. But you also need to realize that you are somewhat prone to anxiety and even panic and this is something you need to deal with.
@bee123 I can only speak for my experience of learning to scuba dive but it was vastly different to yours.
I paid extra for 1-1 (mainly down to scheduling) but in hind sight it was the best thing I could have done. What it meant for me was that I could take as much or as little time as needed to get the skills right and the instructor only had one focus - ME. I managed to get most of the skills down ok but my main stumbling block was hovering. No matter how much I tried I was always swinging way past the point on the wall. He did what was unthinkable to me - he told me (nicely) to get out of the water, have an early lunch and chill out - he could obviously see how stressed I was getting with it. Came back after lunch, had a little potter about at 3m in their pool and he signalled to do the hover. No problem at all - I could maintain the position within about 10cm instead of the 1m swings up and down that I had had in the morning.
Would that have happened in a group setting? I highly doubt it.
Have a word with the shop and see if you can do 1-1 with the instructor you liked (even if it is a bit more cash). Confidence and relaxation are HUGE factors in scuba diving and by spending a bit more time on the basics and being really comfortable, you will find the rest comes so much easier.
BTW skipping the float is a clear breach of standards as per SSI standards . If you follow the download link and look up the water fitness requirements you will see it.
I paid extra for 1-1 (mainly down to scheduling) but in hind sight it was the best thing I could have done. What it meant for me was that I could take as much or as little time as needed to get the skills right and the instructor only had one focus - ME. I managed to get most of the skills down ok but my main stumbling block was hovering. No matter how much I tried I was always swinging way past the point on the wall. He did what was unthinkable to me - he told me (nicely) to get out of the water, have an early lunch and chill out - he could obviously see how stressed I was getting with it. Came back after lunch, had a little potter about at 3m in their pool and he signalled to do the hover. No problem at all - I could maintain the position within about 10cm instead of the 1m swings up and down that I had had in the morning.
Would that have happened in a group setting? I highly doubt it.
Have a word with the shop and see if you can do 1-1 with the instructor you liked (even if it is a bit more cash). Confidence and relaxation are HUGE factors in scuba diving and by spending a bit more time on the basics and being really comfortable, you will find the rest comes so much easier.
BTW skipping the float is a clear breach of standards as per SSI standards . If you follow the download link and look up the water fitness requirements you will see it.
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