Search and Rescue - Lasers and Signaling Devices

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Hello, not to boast but:
sea survival course basic and advanced plus 3 refresher.
Mountain survival: basic and advanced plus 5 refresher.
Civil Air Patrol: observer and mission pilot.
Had a SAR squadron working for me for a couple of years.

Please di not use a laser. Pointing it up will not be visible. Do it i. you back yard (without aircrafts overheard) and observe it from 20 meters/yards no beam will be visible unless fog or dust. Pointing it directly (do not try risk of temporary or permanent blindness) will not allo to locate (blinding). Risk is not worth. Use a signal mirror or a strobe. Please. Laser are used to warn off violating aircrafts in very sensitive areas (check the notam for the Washingron DC flight restricted zone) before engagement.
Like you, I have had several survival related courses over my career. These include:
RCAF Land Survival Course
RCAF Sea Survival Course and
RCAF Search and Rescue Airborne Spotters Course

Like you, I think that the use of lasers to get the attention of a SAR asset is at best a poor decision. In addition to the potential danger that it poses to the crew of the SAR aircraft, it is incredibly directional in its nature. Nobody will see it unless it is pointed right at them and that is the very moment when the risk is introduced.

If people are wondering what is the best tool, then I would advise them to look at what is in the seat pack of an ejection seat, where both space and weight are at a premium. There are flares (not practical in the water, but good if you are over land), a rescue mirror, and a strobe. In some cases where the vast majority of the flying is done over water (such as USN), a dye pack might also be included.
 
I was a NORAD Mission Crew Commander in the Eastern Air Defense Sector, so I am very familiar with the "Sparkle" laser warning system in the Restricted Airspace around Washington DC. Yes, you are right, under very specific circumstances, trained military personnel illuminate aircraft violating the Restricted Airspace (either the SFRA or the FRZ) with a laser. This is one step in the escalation of the use of force Rules of Engagement, and is rarely done and only when it provides the best option to make the aircraft violating that airspace turn away.

I am also acutely aware of pilots on approach into airports (for some reason it is worst around Newark, Reagan National and La Guardia) of pilots calling in emergencies after somebody illuminated the flight deck with a laser and the pilot or copilot was incapacitated to a degree. In most cases, it is limited to a total loss of night vision due to a blinding flash of light and "seeing spots" both of which often go away after a few hours, but until the aircraft is on the ground, the safety of everyone onboard has been compromised.

As a part of my training, I have had the RCAF Land Survival Course, the RCAF Sea Survival Course and the RCAF Search and Rescue Airborne Spotters Course. In any of those courses, when the topic of using a laser was mentioned, the SARTechs (think the same thing as USAF Para Rescue or USCG Rescue Swimmer) teaching the course, universally said that it is about the worst thing that you could do. As others have said, if any member of the crew is illuminated, the pilot will not care who is lasing them or why, they will immediately turn around and RTB.

I agree, we owe it to Cameron to be "honest and realistic" yet an important part of that is that when somebody who actually knows what they are talking about says something, their opinions should not automatically be disregarded. As I said before, in sunny weather, your best option is a good old fashions rescue mirror, and when it isn't sunny, a flashing strobe (see post 18).

I have not disregarded anybody’s opinion that lasers in a rescue situation are undesirable. What I have said is that fearmongering over a low powered laser pointer is ridiculous, because science and math proves it so in almost all cases. However, I have also pointed out that since the only person that actually knows the power output of the laser is the offender themselves, the reaction by a member of a flight crew will (and rightfully should) be the same regardless of whether or not they have been flashed by a handheld laser pointer of low power, or a high power laser capable of actually damaging vision.

I have also echoed that a laser is certainly not the best tool in a survival scenario and there are many other, more useful tools that should be at ones disposal. Hence why I don’t carry a laser, I carry a signal mirror, dye pack, and a PLB.

I know lasers. Really well. Including their use around various classes of airspace, and have worked directly with the FDA and FAA on laser compliance and have since the late 90’s. Fortunately Inhave to do very little of that these days. Now, I never said using a laser was a good idea. But the danger from MOST handheld lasers to the vision of a pilot is demonstrably overstated. It is literally physics stating so. That is not a condemnation of their reaction to being flashed. I fully support their choice to declare an emergency and treat it as such, regardless of their actual level of incapacitation.

If we really want to talk scary though, we can talk about unregulated lasers coming from China with zero compliance whatsoever. Little Johnny wants to light matches with his laser pen type of thing. Even worse are high powered lasers in the IR wavelength that can actually do damage to pilots eyes, but will not trigger a blink reflex. I can buy a 3W 850nm laser shipped from China for less than $100. Pilots should be far more concerned about something like that than a sub-5mW green laser that has a 50% chance of giving them the smallest medical reaction 17 feet from the diode. (Actual math btw)

So how about this, I don’t disregard your experience at NORAD, because the only thing I’ve actually disagreed with is the fearmongering, and you don’t disregard my experience actually working with lasers for over 20 years.

Using an ejection seat is a poor analog. The current version of the ACES-II includes a lift raft and a sleeping bag, as well as a whole host of other fun goodies, including a 121.1/243/406MHz PLB. You're right though, there's no laser. But the cold weather kit does include a hat, gloves, and a saw, which I actually find pretty funny. I had considered carrying a small vacuum-bagged flare kit. Tru Flare makes a similar pen launcher to the .mil issued ones, but traveling with it would be out of the question.
 
No not based on RF like GPS...device using sound. Sound is known to travel far underwater.

My DiveAlert quacks underwater. I can just use morse code for SOS with alternating 3 short quacks and 3 long quacks for example.

Home

image.jpeg
 
It seems to be that a good Visible Light strobe is probably the best (first-)choice for a light-based device ...

I had already picked up a TekTite Mark LED Strobe to always ride in my pocket with my SMB & spool (while in big-water anyway)
- reasonably compact (5.75"), 300m rated, 1mi+ visibility, AA battery (11+ hrs w/ Akaline & 20+ hrs w/ 1.5V Energizer Lithiums)
- includes a velcro strap, but I put on a plastic clip w/ a split-ring (left over from some dive accessory) so I can clip it to the top of my SMB
TekTite Strobe-Lite
tti-1001_1a.jpg


I figured that that was good-enough to get found by my boat if separated on a night-dive, but given recent events, I'm considering getting something with more burn time ...

TekTite also makes a 3-AA version that is about twice as long (9.75"), but rated for 300+ hours
- BONUS it is half the price @ $23. I really can't understand why (and the relative price factor is about the same from Tek-Tite.com directly) although I wonder if there is something about the LED/difuser panel insert that is somehow "less"
Tektite Mark III LED Strobe
TKTS30_3.jpg


Size comparison:
tti-1001_3a.jpg
 
Nice DanT ... good luck with them finding the direction your SOS came from. Was thinking something a little bit more sophisticated like this:
UDI-28 Wrist Unit - UTC

What scenario are you thinking? A cave diver getting lost in a cave?

I’m just a recreational diver, so entanglement is what I’m worry about. I have knife for that.

If I lose my dive buddy during a dive, we agree to look around for bubbles for a minute, after that, we surface.
 
Nice DanT ... good luck with them finding the direction your SOS came from. Was thinking something a little bit more sophisticated like this:
UDI-28 Wrist Unit - UTC
Interesting that the link provides neither range nor price. That suggests neither is encouraging.
 
It seems to be that a good Visible Light strobe is probably the best (first-)choice for a light-based device ...

I had already picked up a TekTite Mark LED Strobe to always ride in my pocket with my SMB & spool (while in big-water anyway)
- reasonably compact (5.75"), 300m rated, 1mi+ visibility, AA battery (11+ hrs w/ Akaline & 20+ hrs w/ 1.5V Energizer Lithiums)
- includes a velcro strap, but I put on a plastic clip w/ a split-ring (left over from some dive accessory) so I can clip it to the top of my SMB
TekTite Strobe-Lite
View attachment 511582

I figured that that was good-enough to get found by my boat if separated on a night-dive, but given recent events, I'm considering getting something with more burn time ...

TekTite also makes a 3-AA version that is about twice as long (9.75"), but rated for 300+ hours
- BONUS it is half the price @ $23. I really can't understand why (and the relative price factor is about the same from Tek-Tite.com directly) although I wonder if there is something about the LED/difuser panel insert that is somehow "less"
Tektite Mark III LED Strobe
View attachment 511583

Size comparison:
View attachment 511584

:D

Good point. I had the same one last May and posted the idea of strapping it on top of the DSMB.

Best signaling devices from the searcher’s point of view - update

D8E8E7BA-26C2-4F79-866F-284A8FE7A1BB.jpeg

5D66D661-BD03-4AD6-9CF1-614388E6B5C2.jpeg
 
I think that unit works to 1km or more..not sure of price but I think it is around the same as an upper end dive computer.
Most of the devices mentioned here are useful at the surface, but what about if you cannot get out of your
entanglement DanT? If for example Cameron could have sent a message to his mum she would have been in a much better position to help him rather than not knowing anything of what transpired.
 

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