Wing Issues

[Graveyarddiver]

Currently Ive been having issues with buoyancy.

How much lift do most of y’all require when you are diving doublke HP133s? I’m curious as to whether my wing does not have enough lift or, its bad fit for my tanks, with my aluminum back plate and no weight belt. I have a dive rite horseshoe rec wing. 60lb lift.

Most of my dives are in saltwater, in a 3mm wetsuit (I have a pretty solid tolerance to cold water). In rare situations i will break out my 7mm 2 piece farmer John wetsuit, but that’s strictly in the winter when I’m not in the Gulf Stream or in New England.

Diving Dry really isn’t a feasible option for most situations as I primarily dive in NC.
I have no issues diving my AL 80s, surprise surprise. And pack on a 10 lb weigh belt.
Most dives if not all dives I do with doubles, I’m carrying my canister light, backup light, lift bag, primary and alternate reels etc.
AL40 stage bottles with nitrox and O2.

Unfortunately given restrictions on number of tanks your allowed to take on some NC dive boats, i cant just use my AL80s, and the significant emotional event associated with breaking down my big doubles is not something I enjoy.

I am in the market for a new wing regardless, preferably one with a dual bladder, what are ya’lls recamendations?

 

[tbone1004]

@Graveyarddiver I don't think the rec wing is 60lbs..... IIRC the Rec wing is about 45, and the classic is about 60. 45lbs is a bit light for double 130's. If you were able to actually dive a balanced rig you would be better off, but double 130's with a 3mm is not recommended for a reason. You have about 25lbs of gas, plus about 12lbs of manifold/regulators/bands/etc, another 3-4lbs with an AL backplate and harness, a full AL40 is -1lbs, plus another 3-4lbs for the regulator/rigging, so you're 25+12+4+5~45lbs before any wetsuit compression which is another 4-6lbs with a 3mm and up to 20lbs with a farmer john.

What we don't know is how Dive Rite rates the Rec wings lift. Is it fresh or salt? Since it is marketed as a single and doubles wing is it measured while on a rig? If so is it with singles or doubles? etc. If they rated it with 8" doubles and fresh water, then it's a true 45lb wing and will have more lift when diving with a single. What I suspect they did is just fill it with water on its own so it will be much less.

I dive a Torus 49 from Deep Sea Supply that is rated at 49lbs with 8" tanks and fresh water. I will say it is marginal with double PST130's. Usable, but marginal. I wouldn't get in the ocean with a rec wing, steel doubles, and a 3mm. 0% chance

 

[rjack321]

60lbs is more than enough. Faber hp133s are

• BUOYANCY FULL: - 9.08 lbs.
• BUOYANCY EMPTY: 1.45 lbs.

If you are properly weighted at the beginning of the END of the dive with empty tanks you are only going to be -20lbs with full tanks.

The problem is your suit is compressing. But even a 7mm wetsuit does not have 40lbs of buoyancy to lose. The full al40s with regs on them are about -4 lbs each. There's no way 60lbs isn't enough with a full compressed wetsuit and full tanks. The wing may or may not have the ability to expand to the full extent/capacity however. The real problem here is that especially with the 7mm, the wetsuit compression is making you feel so heavy.

There are tons of threads here about "balanced rigs" and those oversized steel tanks with the deco bottles in a wetsuit definitely creates a scenario where you cant swim it up in the event of a wing failure. A budget drysuit would be a way better investment than a mega sized dual bladder wing which is going to have a giant profile and tons of drag.

 

[rjack321]

@tbone1004 is right about the 45lbs
Rec Series | Dive Rite

You still need a drysuit with those tanks IMO

 

[Degenerate]

How come diving dry is not an option...?

 

[tbone1004]

How come diving dry is not an option...?

NC is really warm, both on the deck of the boat and in the water.... I can't blame him on not wanting to dive dry.

@Graveyarddiver while I do dive doubles off the coast, is diving without the 40 an option or are you doing significant deco stops?

 

[Degenerate]

NC is really warm, both on the deck of the boat and in the water.... I can't blame him on not wanting to dive dry.

@Graveyarddiver while I do dive doubles off the coast, is diving without the 40 an option or are you doing significant deco stops?

I get that, even though I live in Sweden and we can get (although rare) 30+ degrees in summer I'll still put on my black drysuit and get in water that is up to 25 degrees.
Same when I'm on holiday and diving, my brother lives in Malta and I won't hesitate to put on my drysuit there despite air temps closer to 40 degrees and really warm water.
Maybe I'm an idiot, but I can't imagine diving d12's (think they're about the same as double hp100) in a wetsuit, no matter how much I'll sweat before and after the dive in my suit

 

[tbone1004]

@Degenerate the 133's being referenced are comparable to a 232bar 17L

 

[Graveyarddiver]

Correction it is the classic 60lb wing.

Also the al40s are necessary, I tend to do longer dives with 40 minutes of bottom time ideally, in the range of 115-130 ft. So accelerated deco is preferred.

The 133s are a new addition to my kit that have inky made a few appearances on trips. Previously I brought 2 sets of AL 80s, but not all outfits are on board with taking that much gear.

Rjack, with the amount of gear I haul I do agree my dry suit is preferred, however come may it’s way too hot to wear. In June when I dive a single tank I forego the wetsuit completely.

I think where I stand now is I can
A) ensure my wing is properly expanding to the appropriate volume
B) dive dry, and deal with the heat
C) look at a wing better suited for my rig, potentially increasing drag
D) ditch weight

 

[tbone1004]

@Graveyarddiver
a-I'd look at where your can is sitting, where the reels are etc. as that may be part of the problem
b-worth considering
c-not a lot of wings with more lift than that, but I would certainly not be in there without redundant buoyancy and I don't know of any big dual bladder wings other than the old OMS monstrosities
d-that's what you need to look at if you can, but unsure where you're going to drop it from since there isn't anything "ditchable" there. Maybe going to spools instead of reels depending on the style, but that's about it