3 unaccounted for after a flooded magnesite mine 'Maria Concordia' dive in Poland

[lermontov]

Bit of a one dimensional conclusion imho. What about the culture within the training agency? Why did the instructor feel that he could get away with this sub standard practices. If the Training Agency were rigidly ensuring that their own standards were being correctly applied would these deviations in practice have occurred. Should the standards and practices of the Training Agency been examined as well??

probably because the discussion over training agency culture was not in the purview of the report - perhaps this will be initiated by others

 

[Hiszpan]

Bit of a one dimensional conclusion imho. What about the culture within the training agency? Why did the instructor feel that he could get away with this sub standard practices. If the Training Agency were rigidly ensuring that their own standards were being correctly applied would these deviations in practice have occurred. Should the standards and practices of the Training Agency been examined as well??

It is a valid point, but in the past, IANTD was heavily criticized in the Polish community for their cave instructing standards after the fatality in the Fontanazzi cave during a cave course. Regrettably, nothing changed, and those most vocal about it from among the IANTD instructors were expelled from the organization.

I wonder what, if any, contributory negligence could be assigned to the management of the Concordia mine. After all, they knowingly allowed Intro to Cave and Full Cave courses to be conducted on their site. I am assuming the knowledge of this being against any standard was known to them.

 

[ThatDogDontHunt]

A question from someone who knows zero about this stuff: what is the difference between cave training and mine training? The report called this out as being different.

 

[lermontov]

The Difference Between Caves and Mines - International Training - SDI | TDI | ERDI | PFI

Do you know the differences between diving in a mine vs diving in a cave? While they may seem similar, there are many differences. There are a few dos and don’ts you should know before going into either. Mine diving and cave diving are more different than you might realize.

www.tdisdi.com

A question from someone who knows zero about this stuff: what is the difference between cave training and mine training? The report called this out as being different.

a mine or wreck has geometry that makes it easier to navigate ie port -starboard-up -down a cave is more 3 dimensionl and doesn't follow the same man made logical construction

 

[ginti]

It is a valid point, but in the past, IANTD was heavily criticized in the Polish community for their cave instructing standards after the fatality in the Fontanazzi cave during a cave course. Regrettably, nothing changed, and those most vocal about it from among the IANTD instructors were expelled from the organization.

I wonder what, if any, contributory negligence could be assigned to the management of the Concordia mine. After all, they knowingly allowed Intro to Cave and Full Cave courses to be conducted on their site. I am assuming the knowledge of this being against any standard was known to them.

The mine management in my opinion has no responsibility... If they start stopping instructors to teach on their site, they would only loose customers without improving the situation.

I remember some stories of the polish iantd community about another accident (also here on SB), and I remember that iantd decided to take away the instructor card of those who complained that the agency should do something to ensure the standards are respected... Crazy in my opinion, but it's like that

 

[KevinNM]

It is a valid point, but in the past, IANTD was heavily criticized in the Polish community for their cave instructing standards after the fatality in the Fontanazzi cave during a cave course. Regrettably, nothing changed, and those most vocal about it from among the IANTD instructors were expelled from the organization.

It’s not true that nothing changed. They appointed the instructor responsible for the death to their board of directors.

 

[lermontov]

It’s not true that nothing changed. They appointed the instructor responsible for the death to their board of directors.

i thought he died with student 3?

 

[KevinNM]

i thought he died with student 3?

Sorry, the instructor supervising during the Fontanazzi student death ended up on the board of directors of the agency immediately after the, umm, investigation by the agency.

 

[iwona_76]

I will say more - the instructor from Fontanazzi (IANTD Instructor Trainer) was the instructor who certified the instructor who led the course at the Maria Concordia mine.

 

[cathal]

I will say more - the instructor from Fontanazzi (IANTD Instructor Trainer) was the instructor who certified the instructor who led the course at the Maria Concordia mine.

This is what I meant by the role and potential impact culture can play in any accident.