Almost there on a new BP/W

[dmpaq20]

Tobin,

Been diving for 10 years and I am flying for all of my diving now and I want to get lighter both outside and in the water.
Here is yet another wing setup to think about, I have reviewed your site and have done some math and I want you to
please review the following prior to me ordering.

5'6”, 145 lb male (a floater)
Single AL80, salt water diving only
3mm full (90% of time), 5 mm full (10% of the time)
Zeagle Rangle BCD ((2) 1 lbs non ditchable weights on top cam band)
Integrated weight: 4 lbs
Zeagle 50D reg: 4 lbs
Apollo Bio fins: 5.5 lbs
Camera setup: 4.5 lbs

From my shade tree analysis I am targeting the following:

Medium kydex plate
Hogarthian Harness
Torus 17 wing
I will use (2) XS Scuba weight pockets for ballast (if reqd)

My questions are the following:

1) My initial assessment and came up with 10 lb lift, am I on track with a Torus 17, or do I need a Torus 20?

2) Rubber wing grommets: I understand your reasoning for going to these to prevent wing damage (seen your video as well). However, they look problematic when dive shop kids exchanging tanks (as much as I watch them) on a boat as I can see these things flinging off (especially the lower slot). I checked your website and you do not seem to sell them, I assume I can order an extra set or 2?

3) I have an atomic SS1 and love it (already know how you feel about these, please no flames ). As stated in other posts your 13” hose won’t work so I am going to going to switch out my ranger hose for yours. Is the cable connection at the top dump valve standard in that my ranger corrugated hose and cable will fit without DIY’ing it?

4) As you can see I am bit bottom heavy with my current rig, with your setup do you think that I will still need to trim at the top using weights on the top tank cam band?

Many thanks for your comments, Dave

 

[Blue Sparkle]

Would you mind me chiming in? I'm a beginner diver, and am not Tobin (obviously).

BUT, I did buy basically the same rig you are considering about a year ago. I dive a very similar setup to you, and am around the same size. Warm water diving (Florida-only; I have not even dived in the Chesapeake), aluminum tanks, same percentage of wetsuit uses, etc. One difference is that I don't fly to my diving.

I have a DSS stainless backplate, Torus 17 wing, and basic harness. I'm fairly floaty (neutral at surface with no exposure protection, full AL80, and just the rig above with reg, etc.).

I find the 17# wing to be more than adequate, both in calculations and in actual usage. I wouldn't want a larger one. The only time (for me) that I would need to consider a larger wing or lighter plate would be if I were diving heavier steels/wetsuit. I *have* dived with this rig, a 5mm suit, and an LP95, but that's getting close to limit, from my calculations.

I happen to be head-heavy/butt light, which is the opposite of what you mention. But given that you are head light -- and that you don't plan to dive heavy steel tanks -- I wonder if you might want to consider a stainless backplate? I say that because it would automatically give you 4-5# right over your lungs/back, and I wonder if it might trim you out without having to add separate weights (I don't know, if you are really long waisted maybe the backplate weight would be effectively lower than say, something on a cam band...).

Of course too, that would be an additonal 4# or so in your luggage, vs. weight you can pick up on site. I was just thinking that IF the stainless plate would trim you out nicely without added weight, it might be an option to consider? (Given that with AL tanks and warm water, you probably wouldn't HAVE to have a separate weight belt to keep your rig balanced.)

For myself, with the aforementioned stainless steel plate and no exposure protection, I dive with just the "gas makeup" weight for additional weight (i.e. 4# or so, with an AL63, which is what I mostly dive now - since I'm so butt light with the alu tank, I put 2# on a band around the base of the tank, and 2# on a weight belt). When I dived the most "opposite" rig of an LP95 and my 5mm suit, I wore about 5# on a belt (no need for "tail" weight then).

On the rubber grommets that hold the wing to the plate: I think they are fantastic. I LOVE being able to strip the wing from the plate the minute I'm done diving, so the plate, etc. go in the bottom of my dive bag, and the wing on top, right off the bat. Also rinsing the wing properly is a breeze because it is so light and manageable alone.

I don't see the grommets as being a liability. I did have one tear, but I think it may have been partially my fault (Tobin sent me another, gratis). I would probably order four or so for my dive spares kit if they were available separately (maybe they are, but I didn't see them). But also note that they are not necessary for the rig to function. The wing would just be a tiny bit "floppy" while you had the rig off the tank, but it would not dive any differently. When mine broke I was fine for the rest of the day, then I used a zip tie temporarily. So while yes, they can possibly break, I wouldn't say they are fragile and I think they make the rig really handy.

I hope this doesn't seem too "uppity," since I'm a beginner diver and since I'm definitely not Tobin. I just thought since our physique/diving scenario was so similar that I would tell you about my experience.

Blue Sparkle

 

[cool_hardware52]

Tobin,

Been diving for 10 years and I am flying for all of my diving now and I want to get lighter both outside and in the water.
Here is yet another wing setup to think about, I have reviewed your site and have done some math and I want you to
please review the following prior to me ordering.

5'6”, 145 lb male (a floater)
Single AL80, salt water diving only
3mm full (90% of time), 5 mm full (10% of the time)
Zeagle Rangle BCD ((2) 1 lbs non ditchable weights on top cam band)
Integrated weight: 4 lbs
Zeagle 50D reg: 4 lbs
Apollo Bio fins: 5.5 lbs
Camera setup: 4.5 lbs

From my shade tree analysis I am targeting the following:

Medium kydex plate
Hogarthian Harness
Torus 17 wing
I will use (2) XS Scuba weight pockets for ballast (if reqd)

My questions are the following:

1) My initial assessment and came up with 10 lb lift, am I on track with a Torus 17, or do I need a Torus 20?

2) Rubber wing grommets: I understand your reasoning for going to these to prevent wing damage (seen your video as well). However, they look problematic when dive shop kids exchanging tanks (as much as I watch them) on a boat as I can see these things flinging off (especially the lower slot). I checked your website and you do not seem to sell them, I assume I can order an extra set or 2?

3) I have an atomic SS1 and love it (already know how you feel about these, please no flames ). As stated in other posts your 13” hose won’t work so I am going to going to switch out my ranger hose for yours. Is the cable connection at the top dump valve standard in that my ranger corrugated hose and cable will fit without DIY’ing it?

4) As you can see I am bit bottom heavy with my current rig, with your setup do you think that I will still need to trim at the top using weights on the top tank cam band?

Many thanks for your comments, Dave

Dave,


You should need about 8 lbs of total ballast with a 3mm and al 80. A SS plate, harness and reg will provide about that. Keep in mind that an SS plate is just over 3lbs heavier than a Kydex plate, but it offers the advantage of placing the ballast it provides up over your buoyant lungs.

Go weigh your current BC, there is a good chance a BP&W, even with a SS plate is actually lighter.

If you have no plans for any suits thicker than your 5mm, and stick with al 80's a Torus 17 is enough lift.

The rubber locators we use on our wings don't "fling off" they are retained in the wing. It is also no problem to use the gear without the locators. We do have spares if needed, but they are not a mission critical item.

Recap:

Medium SS Plate
Torus 17 Wing
Hogarthian Harness
(cambands and wedge blocks included)

Tobin

 

[aprxh]

My son and I have the
DSS Medium SS Plate
Torus 17 Wing
Hogarthian Harness
and dive with a 3MM Wetwear wetsuit and and AL80 in FL. We each use 8lbs of lead on a weight belt in salt water.

I am 5'8" and 170 lbs he is taller and thinner.



We love the gear.

 

[dmpaq20]

Thanks all,

I weighed my current BCD and with the trim weights included it came in at 10.5 lbs. In my twisted mind I can't help but to think that
if I am going to have to add weight anyway to get to 8 lbs then just stick with a Kydex plate and travel light then just add weights XS scuba weight pockets and add trim on the top band that as I do today. Still thinking about this one....

 

[irishsquid]

...
2) Rubber wing grommets: ...However, they look problematic ... I checked your website and you do not seem to sell them, I assume I can order an extra set or 2?
...Dave

...On the rubber grommets...I did have one tear, but I think it may have been partially my fault (Tobin sent me another, gratis). ...I wouldn't say they are fragile and I think they make the rig really handy...
Blue Sparkle

...The rubber locators we use on our wings don't "fling off" they are retained in the wing. It is also no problem to use the gear without the locators. We do have spares if needed, but they are not a mission critical item...
Tobin

Just over 100 dives on my DSS BP/W, and the locators are just starting to look "used". Mine must be made from "good rubber"

 

[dmpaq20]

Thanks all, it appears that my perception of the rubber locators is unfounded

 

[gismonkey]

I lost my rubber locators about 100 dives ago (after about 300 dives on the my LCD30), and Tobin sent me replacements that I never got around to putting on. I'm fine without them; I'm just accustomed to not having them and it really doesn't make that big of a difference to me (it's actually a smidge faster not to bother with them).

Thanks all, it appears that my perception of the rubber locators is unfounded