divers in trouble..

[bluephoenix]

sorry I am not sure where to post my text nor do I know an appropriate title..
we had a severe accident, a part of it I like to share as it could be important also for others:
after all we surfaced, I managed to inflate both BCDs etc. and calm down my buddy a bit, but both of us were really totally exhausted..
some days after, my buddy told me a diver at the dive site asked us if everything was fine (thanks for asking! this was even more than many people are doing..).. it was not.. but the problem was I did not recognised he was there asking us; he was behind me and I was first tied up with keeping us on surface and then a kind of standing beside myself I were told.., other problem buddy was in shock or whatever and did not react to him or told me he was there.. next point we did not react but the other diver was not drawing consequences from that.. furthermore, when we were on the shore I forgot everything, I even did not remember what happend underwater nor recognized other divers or could relate symptoms to DCI even though I know otherwise etc..
about 4 days later I remembered the dive in more detail (but I am still lacking at least some hours after the dive), and I am really impressed what happend: that we could not react right to help ourselves in this situation although we normally know and also the other diver asked but then leaves the dive site..
so please if you see divers in trouble, ask, and if they do not react - please help!
you will only do wrong when you don't do anything! I don't want to blame anyone, of course not, possibly he also did not know what to do or misinterpret the situation. I just what to sensitize to the problem. No reaction, then e.g. go there and ask short questions, name and/or describe the symptoms do not only ask for "symptoms", do a short neurocheck or whatever.. in case 'guide' the in-trouble diver a bit possibly he or she does not know basic things anymore!
and note to yourself: things you normally know could be totally gone within only a few minutes..

 

[TSandM]

This is a really good post, bluephoenix! People under severe stress can be noisy and actively out of control, or they can be turned severely into themselves, with massively narrowed perception. That's one of the reasons that the "okay" signal in diving is a "command" signal, which MUST be returned in some fashion -- it's because someone who doesn't answer may not be doing so because they are seriously NOT okay. This concept holds out of the water as well. It's a good message for all of us!

 

[fisheater]

I had an emergency air-share with another diver who was almost out at depth.

Though he was breathing like a freight train climbing the Sierras on the ascent, all went well. But once on the surface, he just stared off into the distance, didn't look towards the boat, didn't look towards me and didn't verbally respond to me.

It wasn't until I towed him to the boat ladder and the DM directly engaged him, that he came out of his near catatonic state.

Even then, I never got a "thank you." (Well, the DM and Captain thanked me for saving his ass.)

Panic really can turn folks into mannequins.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[beaverdivers]

Good point! Thanks for sharing.

 

[Aguablanco1]

I read an article recently that said that most drownings are "quiet." What that means is that most people in fear of drowning are so busy trying to keep their head above water that they have no time or energy to call or or make a fuss. It has little, to no, resemblance to what we see in the movies or on TV. If one sees someone struggling to keep their head above water, generally sinking and then bobbing up, lend a hand. It could save their life.
RichH

 

[drrich2]

I'm trying to get a picture of the general scene of what was going on.

You surfaced, and someone was close enough to verbally ask you if you were alright, and be heard without resorting to hand signals, I take it?

You mention the 'dive site' and being 'back on shore' at some point. Was this a shore dive, or a boat dive?

Were you guys part of some group? Or just the 2 of you doing a buddy dive?

Where the conditions difficult looking to an observer?

Where did this happen?

I ask because these things can affect how bystanders respond. You were evidently close to a boat or close to shore when this happened. If it was water water & calm seas, and the 2 of you appeared engaged with each other (e.g.: you were tending to your buddy, likely facing each other), an observer might conclude it highly unlikely both of you were highly stressed and compromised in the absence of an obvious observable problem.

Richard.

 

[Mark Michaud SELAUSAR]

On another note, you mentioned not remembering the whole incident. That is very normal during a critical incident. This occurs even when the incident may not have occurred to you but you were still part of it. It is important that if you make a statement concerning the incident you should be brief at first. You should notify any involved that you will provide a more detailed account of the incident after a week or so. Even then leave it open to adding anything else that you may remember. Last summer I located a teacher who was missing for 98 days in New Orleans. I have been a policeman for nearly 22 years at the time in a pretty active city. I have been diving since 1994 and do inland commercial diving as a second job (Mississippi River, Industrial Canal, Intercoastal Waterway and such). I have written several homicides, recovered bodies, been in serious use of force incidents prior to this recovery.

About a month ago I was watching 2 topside videos of the recovery that concerned the teacher. One video did not have my truck and boat trailer in it as it was parked about a mile away. The next video showed my truck. I called the 2 people, who where with me, about this. Both said, "after you found the car you took is to the vehicles to move them" I made 5 dives on the car. Even now I do not remember ever leaving the site after diving on the car. That was June 06, 2013.

This could be the difference of a shop owner, friend, DM or instructor being seen as a liar after a critical incident where serious injury or death occurs. Even your friends may think you are untruthful when in fact you do not remember everything. Be aware that this can happen and it is normal. Here is a link concerning this type of Critical Incident Memory Loss that may be helpful.

Critical Incident Amnesia- Colonel Dave Grossman and Bruce Siddle, Author

Sorry for the hijack but I feel this is not covered enough. Back to the topic. Mark Michaud

 

[bluephoenix]

Sorry for the hijack but I feel this is not covered enough. Back to the topic.

no need to say sorry this was one point of what I tried to say, so it is the topic
I have to mention I don't know if amnesia was/is caused by the incident/stress and/or by DCI (diagnosed with DCS II), but it is important it can happen to everyone! despite experience and knowledge! and it can happen really fast! and without clear 'warnings'!
interestingly it seems that even some professionals working in the area of dive accidents do not know that

You surfaced, and someone was close enough to verbally ask you if you were alright, and be heard without resorting to hand signals, I take it?

think so, my buddy told me, as I did not see and hear it by myself I cannot tell in detail
sry English is not my primary language and since the accident some words etc. are still missing.. but it is getting better

Was this a shore dive, or a boat dive?

shore dive

Were you guys part of some group? Or just the 2 of you doing a buddy dive?

buddy dive

Where the conditions difficult looking to an observer?

I don't know as I were not an observer
cold water lake a bit outlying, most of the time not many divers there, weather ok
on surface buddy was spitting blood and breathing really hard.. I was on surface only few seconds after her (she finally panicked a second time which I cold not hold/handle and I let her go around 5-6m observing if she keeps her face away from the water and reducing my speed a bit), she told me afterwards the other diver asked if she is ok and what happend and she responded emergency ascend without adequate stops from 42m because of OOG situation and panic ascend from 12m, he laughed..

Where did this happen?

sry for not telling, most important point, my buddy survived
ok we did, that was really a close thing..
as we need to get through everything at the moment and serveral things went really 'strange' afterwards I can't tell this being visible openly, sorry

 

[DanLW]

Indeed, if a diver doesn't respond, they probably need help. I learned this in the rescue diver class I'm taking. Many people can probably easily recognize active panic, but many people probably also aren't aware of passive panic. A diver can be panicking while showing no external signs of panic. Somebody in this state won't respond to instructions, or worse, may enter active panic without warning.

So yes, if a diver ignores you, don't ignore them!

 

[fisheater]

Indeed, if a diver doesn't respond, they probably need help. I learned this in the rescue diver class I'm taking. Many people can probably easily recognize active panic, but many people probably also aren't aware of passive panic. A diver can be panicking while showing no external signs of panic. Somebody in this state won't respond to instructions, or worse, may enter active panic without warning.

So yes, if a diver ignores you, don't ignore them!

Yep. I saw that "in real life." See post #3.