New Florida dive flag law coming on July 1, 2014

[havnmonkey]

Most of us make light of this because we care. But nonetheless it is a serious topic. I would like to see a law that makes some violations criminal, or at least makes the possibility of a criminal case more obtainable. But that is my opinion.


This law change appears to only add the use of a buoy as another legal option to display a flag from a vessel. I didn't see anywhere in the language that would REQUIRE the use of A BUOY. The language still says "or" and it appears to be an option to either use a flag atop the vessel or a buoy floating near the vessel.

I ask this question: what is safer, a buoy with a flag floating on the surface? Or a flag on top of the boat?

 

[Oldbear]

We are "lucky" in the sense that in the combination area for both divers and ski boats, divers are required to use dive flags and ski boaters are required to respect them. Any violations could mean serious repercussions from the Small Boat Marine organization and/or U.S. Army. You could lose your boating privileges, diving privileges and on really serious offences lose your job and ask to leave the island (Kwajalein), although I have never heard of it happening since just about everyone abides by the rules.

 

[tekkydiver]

I was hit by a fishing boat traveling at high speed off Delray Ledges on Aug 3, 2013, after surfacing in a summer squall while I was in direct contact with my dive flag. This is not a laughing matter in any way. I'm lucky I was minimally injured rather than maimed or killed in this worst of all possible scenarios for OW divers. Believe me, I have a very different perception of this possibility than any of you who make light of the situation. I hope none of you see a boat heading for you at high speed, coming out of the mist, with only a few seconds to respond.

Good diving, Craig

Sorry, but I have to ask the obvious.... How could you have only been minimally injured having been struck be a vessel traveling at high speed? I would think most any contact with a high speed vessel would certain cause severe or fatal injuries. Could you describe the incident in more detail?

Also, where was the boat you diving from? Why were they unable to stay in contact with your flag, especially in unfavorable conditions?

 

[The Chairman]

Let's keep this to a discussion about Florida Dive Flag Laws, please. We don't want to debate incidents or promote retaliatory actions. I've had two discussions with two different FWC officers in the last 24 hours. The first alerted me to the new law and the second confirmed how it was passed and to say the least: I am shocked and disheartened by how it went down.

• As far as I can tell, no stake holders were asked for their opinion.
• This was initiated by DEMA or DEMA's lobbyist to promote a single product. One that hasn't been seen by anyone that I know.
• It does not add Safety Sausages as a legal device.
• It does nothing to address reality as it applies to current usages.
• There has been nothing scientific to show what's needed.
• It does nothing to make running over a diver next to a dive flag a criminal offense.

I think we can use this thread to communicate to the Florida Legislature and FWC what we want in a Dive Flag Law. Personally, I would like to keep what they have, including the buoy, and add sausages to it. I would also like to see a caveat for deep dives where we aren't required to drag a flag when we are below 40 ft. They become snag hazards for other buoys and even boats and all we need to do is to shoot a Safety Sausage when we get shallower. After all, that's the standard practice for divers doing very deep dives and spearfishing already. It would also promote the use of Safety Sausages and the ability to shoot them from depth. Think of the drive offs that would be prevented by divers shooting a sausage when they are separated from the main flag.

What do y'all think?

 

[scubadada]

Sorry, but I have to ask the obvious.... How could you have only been minimally injured having been struck be a vessel traveling at high speed? I would think most any contact with a high speed vessel would certain cause severe or fatal injuries. Could you describe the incident in more detail?

Also, where was the boat you diving from? Why were they unable to stay in contact with your flag, especially in unfavorable conditions?

In the short time available to me, I made an emergency descent and the tail of my tank was struck by the hull, likely forcing me a little deeper. My left foot was struck by one of the props, resulting in a fracture and a relatively superficial laceration from which I was able to fully recover. A couple more seconds and I might have been able to get deep enough to have avoided being struck altogether. As it is, I consider myself very lucky to have escaped. I was back in the water in 10 days.

This was August in SE FL. When we entered the water, it was bright and sunny. Over an hour later, we surfaced in the squall with nearly zero visibility. Our boat had temporarily lost sight of us in the conditions. The fishing boat was racing into make weigh-in for a tournament that was taking place that day, the Pompano Beach Saltwater Shootout. The incident was investigated by the FWC and the captain was cited for reckless boating, excessive speed for conditions, and no lookout.

I hope this never happens to any of you

Good and safe diving, Craig

 

[guyharrisonphoto]

NetDoc you are 100% dead-on with all of your points. As a Palm Beach drift diver (mainly) I am acutely aware that we really, really need some regs allowing sausage use and making them the equivalent of dive flags. It is absurd that I am "illegal" if I am more than 300' from the boat at the end of the dive (not uncommon with drift divers and varying dive plans) with my 6' sausage deployed and held vertically--far more visible than a flag.

Nothing is worse than dragging a flag at 90' that is being swept strongly ahead of you and pulling you along with no ability to swim against or even laterally to the current.


Scubadada, it sounds like your accident was more from reckless boating than breach of dive flag etiquette, as the flag was not visible to anyone due to the conditions. However, in those conditions, only certified idiots would be running at speed. Glad he got the tickets he deserved. Even more, I am glad you survived to dive another day and share your experience, which should be a warning to us all that anything can happen even if you do everything right . . .

 

[sportxlh]

Sorry, but I have to ask the obvious.... How could you have only been minimally injured having been struck be a vessel traveling at high speed? I would think most any contact with a high speed vessel would certain cause severe or fatal injuries. Could you describe the incident in more detail?

Also, where was the boat you diving from? Why were they unable to stay in contact with your flag, especially in unfavorable conditions?

This sort of thing can happen and the diver walk away. See post #72 in this thread....... the OP does a nice job explaining the accident in the post

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/florida-diving/303706-bridge-debris-old-donald-ross-bridge-8.html

---------- Post added June 5th, 2014 at 11:27 AM ----------

Let's keep this to a discussion about Florida Dive Flag Laws, please......

• I think we can use this thread to communicate to the Florida Legislature and FWC what we want in a Dive Flag Law. Personally, I would like to keep what they have, including the buoy, and add sausages to it.......
  
  What do y'all think?

• 
  
  Opps: sorry about perpetuating the accident discussion: I didn't see your post until after I posted the link to another SB thread.
  
  To your proposal of including a sausage, I like it. In Jupiter and WPB, the procedure you describe of shooting a sausage toward the end of a dive is common and status quo for even recreational divers who aren't spearing or doing deco dives.
  

 

[djtimmy77]

Most boaters have no clue what the sausages are. I was on a fishing charter once in the Jupiter area and the captain was motoring on plane to get us to another spot....we came across some sausages and I had to tell him they were divers to get him to slow to idle until we were clear of the line of sausages.

 

[The Chairman]

That's the problem. No law defining a sausage means they will be completely ignored... not just partially ignored like dive flags.

 

[SavageRon]

• This was initiated by DEMA or DEMA's lobbyist to promote a single product. One that hasn't been seen by anyone that I know.

I really like your ideas.
I see them as being useful, helpful, and practical.
I would really like to see the penalties for ignoring a dive flag increased exponentially.

I also see most of that being contrary to DEMAs deliberate attempt at marketing a single product. After all, if sausages were legal as dive flags, the company behind the product wouldn't make bank; thus negating the reason to spend all those lobbying dollars to buy legislation. Buying politicians is about making profit for yourself; not fixing anything for anyone else.