Do you have specific advice for posture and anatomy as it relates to trim?

[happy-diver]

Well if you feel like there's someone sitting on your back pulling on your legs and your neck
and you're about to plant your face in the murky dusty bottom, but can also spin on a dime
I would say your posture is correct

It's all in the arch

No arms outstretched no extra neoprene special fins no thick neoprene to raise your legs
no secrets no tricks just all your weight on your back paying attention to centre of gravity.

Hey, I'm about to go finning for an hour, hows about ankle weights to really mess me up
and you too can have legs like Arnie used to, and like that's a really good idea yeah right

and when you build up your strength, diving posture doesn't feel like bondage or wrestling anymore

because without posture you're diving like a cross between a sack of potatoes and a sack of coconuts

and not happily like this

 

[Saniflush]

A lot of good advice as is the usual around here. I would add one thought. Being in trim is great if that's how you want to be, however great buoyancy is far more critical in my book. There are many times that I am not in what most would consider good trim because I don't want to be. Sometimes I'm upside down trying to get a picture. Sometimes I am vertical like a seahorse to get more push on a drift dive without any work. Sometimes I just don't feel like it. I say all of this to say that IMO don't get too hung up on perfect trim all the time. It absolutely has it's place but if I were in perfect trim all the time I would have missed seeing many things that would have been out of view otherwise.

 

[mi000ke]

As @JackOfDiamonds suggested, you might want to do a pool session to work out your weighting and trim. Also, as he mentioned your weight seems a bit high. I dive in a 5 mm full suit, and when I was at 25 dives I was using about 18 lbs. After doing a pool session with an instructor for an hour, we were able to position my weights for better trim, and also get my weight down. I then did a peak buoyancy ocean dive as part of the AOW program, and in just one dive they were able to get me down to 10-12 lbs in salt water - which is what I typically use now. (btw, the biggest issue regarding amount of weight for me was learning to become motionless to help in descending, although I duck dive down now to reduce my weight even more,) And my buoyancy and trim are usually spot on now. Getting your weight down has a big effect, and a good instructor can really help.

 

[Ryan Neely]

A lot of good advice as is the usual around here. I would add one thought. Being in trim is great if that's how you want to be, however great buoyancy is far more critical in my book. There are many times that I am not in what most would consider good trim because I don't want to be. Sometimes I'm upside down trying to get a picture. Sometimes I am vertical like a seahorse to get more push on a drift dive without any work. Sometimes I just don't feel like it. I say all of this to say that IMO don't get too hung up on perfect trim all the time. It absolutely has it's place but if I were in perfect trim all the time I would have missed seeing many things that would have been out of view otherwise.

I see you're point @Saniflush . My [perhaps illogical] understanding was that, as a means of helping to attempt to achieve good buoyancy, one must also achieve good trim. I realize that the two are different beasts, but somehow they seem related. Maybe I'm wrong there.

 

[Saniflush]

I see you're point @Saniflush . My [perhaps illogical] understanding was that, as a means of helping to attempt to achieve good buoyancy, one must also achieve good trim. I realize that the two are different beasts, but somehow they seem related. Maybe I'm wrong there.

This is the way I look at it. You can have good buoyancy without having good trim but it's much harder to have it the other way around. Once again just my .02.

 

[Ryan Neely]

This is the way I look at it. You can have good buoyancy without having good trim but it's much harder to have it the other way around. Once again just my .02.

No, that's good advice, actually. With all the training I'm trying to put myself through this summer, it's probably important for me to focus on one thing at a time. If you can have good buoyancy without good trim, perhaps focusing solely on buoyancy is where I should spend the majority of my time. If it's more difficult to have good trim without good buoyancy, then I might be putting the cart before the horse.

 

[MichaelMc]

Ahh. There was a modest debate (that I may have been obtuse in) on how intertwined were buoyancy, trim, and propulsion. They are rather much three foundations of good dive skill.

If you have head up tail down trim, and kick, you will likely send yourself a bit up, causing a shift in buoyancy. Or swimming along with head down trim you need to be buoyant, not neutral, to counteract your kicks sending you downward. Until you stop, and then you'll start ascending from being buoyant. So you will need to breath shallower or dump some air, because you're no longer moving. Really the complex way to go about things.

Your diving will be easier if you are flat as you will present more vertical drag to the water, so your depth will be easier to control, and any kicks will not change your depth. Which when shallow would also change your buoyancy. Learning smooth buoyancy control will be easier if every kick does not threaten to change your depth.

That debate: Are trim and buoyancy fundamentally related?. Some good discussion on the three, regardless of how you judge the nature of their relationship.

 

[Ryan Neely]

Thanks for the link @MichaelMc .

 

[happy-diver]

Yeah who knows, perhaps Beethoven for a few years only played the black keys until an epiphany

 

[teonchagi]

This has been a fascinating thread to read. I actually have had the opposite problem. What felt like fairly horizontal trim to my body was actually a bit knees down, head up (like my profile picture, but not that pronounced). If I totally relaxed (stopped sculling my feet), I would be okay, but if I tried to bring my head down for the poor photographer trying to get a nice photo of me....I would flip right over onto my head. I think I used about 600psi trying to pose for a silly photo. My peak performance buoyancy specialty was extremely helpful. I improved a lot, though I still have a long way to go.

I just replaced my very floaty fins with Hollis F1s and have only tried them in my pool so far, but man it felt nice. I'll be heading to the lake this coming weekend to try in water that is deeper than 5 ft.