NWGratefulDiver:
REALLY??? wow; that seems excessive and fortunately PADI doesn't do that
400m swim for DM
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REALLY??? wow; that seems excessive and fortunately PADI doesn't do that
SparticleBrane
Contributor
There are no walls to hang onto in the ocean...TheHobster:
edit: What he means by "grabbing the wall" is--you're not allowed to touch the top of the pool deck as this constitutes resting. Obviously you can touch the part that's underwater...
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Why? As I explain to my students, if an old, fat guy like me can do it surely an aspiring young DM candidate can.TheHobster:
They somehow manage.
Seems to me a lot of the DM exercises are about self-discipline ... the 400 yard swim is no exception. If you can't manage the discipline to train for it, perhaps you should reconsider whether or not being a DM is the right thing for you to do ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
SparticleBrane:
Problem is many folks get into diving, like me, but were never taught proper swimming technique beforehand. I've been swimming most of my life. Stopped as I got older then started up again when I got into diving. Never even knew those "flips" were called flipturns
Anyway, as I see it if someone does them so be it, it shows they are a good swimmer. If not, then as long as they can complete the exercise well then it proves they can swim, have the stamina, just not the technique. If someone wants to make technique a requirement, then that has to be made known to the student beforehand. But I don't see that happening in the real world.
but as I said, why not turns? if you master them that just shows that much more skill in the water - and the value of the exercise is to show stamina and watermanship - plus if you are training to do it, and do so with a Masters or Age group swim team, you better be doing turns or you'll interrupt the flowNWGratefulDiver:
I was originally NAUI as OW - we did a 400, and I got certified with my team; I was one of the slowest at 4:45, 2 guys under 4:00 - taking turns away would not make them better
IMHO, that is old school mentality
Rainer:
Allow me to preface this with the fact that I am not a DM/ DM candidate nor do I want to be. I can't imagine an instructor failing someone for using flip-turns. Usually there is an inherent swimming ability/ technique found in those that chose to use flip turns (it takes a while to learn how to do it well enough to to be confident to attempt during a measured swim). Typically a well executed flip-turn conveys above average swimming ability. If you want to get technical, I remember having to do our swimming tests for lifesaving cert in late '80s with head out of water looking ahead, reason being it didn't matter how fast or slow you swam if your victim slipped under the surface while you weren't looking.
Edit: I type way too slow
SparticleBrane
Contributor
I believe there's a fundamental difference between "bad technique" and "no technique".
No technique means you don't even attempt the front crawl or other recognized offical stroke. Bad technique means you attempt it, but suck. I'm not saying that everyone should be olympic swimmers--not by a long shot! I'm just saying that people should at least have an ounce of swimming ability, especially if you're going into a leadership role for scuba diving.
It's that whole "leadership by example" thing. Personally I believe that someone who scuba dives should be proficient at swimming. Thus, someone in a leadership role for diving should definitely be proficient, and preferably good at swimming.
No technique means you don't even attempt the front crawl or other recognized offical stroke. Bad technique means you attempt it, but suck. I'm not saying that everyone should be olympic swimmers--not by a long shot! I'm just saying that people should at least have an ounce of swimming ability, especially if you're going into a leadership role for scuba diving.
It's that whole "leadership by example" thing
. Personally I believe that someone who scuba dives should be proficient at swimming. Thus, someone in a leadership role for diving should definitely be proficient, and preferably good at swimming.
Certainly when i did mine touching anything wouldnt have been allowed and all instructors i know will not allow you to kick/push off from a wall of a pool. Most class that as cheating and i'd tend to agree.
Mine was performed in the sea on a measured 400m straight line between 2 buoys thereby eliminating even the temptation to do that. I was 2 seconds inside a 3. At that time my instructor had standards wrong and assumed you needed a 3 on everything. Had i known otherwise i'd have aimed for a 2 and been happy with a 1.
At the time i'd never been fitter, diving 3 times a day every day for 6 months, was able to comfortably run several miles at a sensible speed and so on. However swimming is something i havent done much of for 10 years and something never done in the uk (especially in the sea) so always knew it was going to be a painful nightmare.
Other than a stamina part of it im not too sure how useful a swim with no equipment actually is to diving (over and above basic sea survival).
Mine was performed in the sea on a measured 400m straight line between 2 buoys thereby eliminating even the temptation to do that. I was 2 seconds inside a 3. At that time my instructor had standards wrong and assumed you needed a 3 on everything. Had i known otherwise i'd have aimed for a 2 and been happy with a 1.
At the time i'd never been fitter, diving 3 times a day every day for 6 months, was able to comfortably run several miles at a sensible speed and so on. However swimming is something i havent done much of for 10 years and something never done in the uk (especially in the sea) so always knew it was going to be a painful nightmare.
Other than a stamina part of it im not too sure how useful a swim with no equipment actually is to diving (over and above basic sea survival).
Saltair
Contributor
I think the trick to this is to avoid the freestlye/crawl. I just watched my wife go through her OW course and there was a 200yard requirement. Everybody takes off doing the freestlye with their faces out fo the water. I was a competitive swimmer in my younger days and this is a VERY hard way to swim. Even with your face in the water you are removing you arms from the water and placing them back in. A breast stroke uses much less energy, your arms stay at about the same level in the water. If this swim test is about stamina I dont see the problem with this. If I am in the realworld and swimming a long distance for my life I would not be doing the crawl stroke. In a rescue situation the breaststroke lets you keep the victim in sight while you approach. I see very little application for any extended use of the crawl stroke in real open water.
I have finally forced myself to get past this environment of divers not really needing to be good swimmers. I still do find it comical how many divers would probably have a panic attack if faced with being in the water with no fins, gear etc... As for DMs and above, I don't think 400 yds is enough.
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