400m swim for DM
- Thread starter richarddean
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If you are a reasonable to good swimmer then this swim is really easy especially with the time limits. If you are not a reasonable to good swimmer or have bad technique then you may need some training. You may also get a low score but you should be able to do it. The training should also give you more confidence any how.
As for not pushing off the wall that sounds a little "navy seal - old school" to me. Anyway I think my time would have been much better if it had been in open water over a straight line. Swimming in the sea is actually easier as you are more buoyant. Also unless you have great technique the turns actually slow most people down. If you swim around the edges of the pool then you may end up doing a little less that 400m anyhow as you are likely to miss a couple of meters on each corner.
Any way which ever way your instructor wants you to do it I wouldn't worry. Just do what needs to be done. Find out which way your instructor wants it done and train like that.
As for not pushing off the wall that sounds a little "navy seal - old school" to me. Anyway I think my time would have been much better if it had been in open water over a straight line. Swimming in the sea is actually easier as you are more buoyant. Also unless you have great technique the turns actually slow most people down. If you swim around the edges of the pool then you may end up doing a little less that 400m anyhow as you are likely to miss a couple of meters on each corner.
Any way which ever way your instructor wants you to do it I wouldn't worry. Just do what needs to be done. Find out which way your instructor wants it done and train like that.
in_cavediver
Contributor
First, I was a DM and passed all of the swims. I do have mixed opinions about the timed swims. I believe I did them (been 4 years) all in the 2-4 range on times but still, I wouldn't say I am a 'good' swimmer (the 400 was the slowest at 2, the 800 was a 3 and the tired diver tow was a 4 (almost 5 actually, remember thinking about doing it again to get the five because I was that close).
The point of the standard is to establish stamina of a DM candidate. While many can swim well, some cannot and some of us have bad technique. Personally, I'd add another option where if you are comfortable in the short distance times, add a much much longer distance with somewhat relaxed targeted times. Think 1/2 mile or so swim. This should take care of the slower but consistant swimmers.
In the end though, its really not that hard to meet the minumums for PADI.
Oh, and for the subject of flipturns vs turns vs whatever. I doubt it really matters. Think about this, if you are the instructor of record and you DM candidate does flip turns and has a good time for a 4 or 5, you don't have much to be concerned about. On the flip side, if they just make a 1 or 2 using whatever advantage they can get, for all of the swims, well you can use discretion to get them to improve their ability.
The point of the standard is to establish stamina of a DM candidate. While many can swim well, some cannot and some of us have bad technique. Personally, I'd add another option where if you are comfortable in the short distance times, add a much much longer distance with somewhat relaxed targeted times. Think 1/2 mile or so swim. This should take care of the slower but consistant swimmers.
In the end though, its really not that hard to meet the minumums for PADI.
Oh, and for the subject of flipturns vs turns vs whatever. I doubt it really matters. Think about this, if you are the instructor of record and you DM candidate does flip turns and has a good time for a 4 or 5, you don't have much to be concerned about. On the flip side, if they just make a 1 or 2 using whatever advantage they can get, for all of the swims, well you can use discretion to get them to improve their ability.
tjmills
Contributor
This is funny acually because I am actually training for this now over the last 2 weeks for my DM course and after reading some of the posts I am amazed at the comments I have seen on this post. I was a lifeguard for 5 years when I was younger, wrestled in college, played football, baseball and now I am a fat (25+lbs) and out of shape 41 year old which I am using this DM course to motivate me to get in better shape. I forgot how much exercise and aerobic activity that swimming laps can do for you and for "me" this is better than any treadmill or jogging track.
My first time trying it I hit 9 minutes and was completely out of breath to say the least but I did not stop and I swam freestyle for the first 200 yards before doing a resting stroke for a couple of legnths and then went back to freestyle again to finish the last couple of legnths. Not bad but not great. You don't have to do all of these swims in one night. My technique was more than a little rusty and I am working on this but I never swam competitively but do enjoy swimming the laps. I agree and did exactly what many of you have stated. Go practice and get comfortable with the swim. My routine is to swim the 400 non stop and take a little break to catch my breath and check my time. Then I swim 50 yard sprints to get to 700 yards resting between each one to get my heart pumping and build my endurance. The last 50 is a struggle every time if you are really pushing it!! My times have been anywhere between 8:30 and 9:25 so at least I know my pace and am working on finding the right one for my fat gut. I would really like to beat the 8 min mark during the test and that is my goal. 20 years ago I could have done that with no problem but that makes little difference today. Either way I have found a workout that I really enjoy none the less.
Pools vs. Open water: Man I would LOVE do do this in open water but that is not possible for most of us. Colorado is water challenged at best and most of the lakes are FROZEN here at this point so an open water swim is out of the question since I am not a polar bear. If you live somewhere this is possible consider yourself lucky but I don't consider you better than people who don't. I would guess more than 90% of you wouldn't even be divers today if it were only available to people who did this. Pools are the only option for most of us and it is to the benefit of the industry that it is and I don't care if you are PADI, NAUI or SSI or whatever. The criticism to the contrary is insulting and not worth the effort to argue.
I also remember the old school pool I used to swim in that was 50 yards......and I miss it. Much easier but finding one of those pools anymore is near impossible indoors unless you have access to a college with a swim team. 25 yards is the standard today which means you have to do a lot of turns and use a lot of wasted energy doing it. It is not much of an aide in my opinion and as far as endurance you spend a lot of energy doing more turns than the benefit of pushing off in my opinion. I feel lucky because a friend of mine did it in a 15 yard pool at the LDS which is more laps than I could count while swimming. I am sure it would make me dizzy to do this.
Based on some of the posts some of you appartently think that you are olympic quality based upon the times you have posted. This may be true but being a skeptic I feel obligated to post the following world records. If you are within 30 seconds of these times PLEASE contact you Olympic committee because your country needs you. Yes I realize the difference between 400m and 400 yards but you get the point.
Mens
400 m 3:40.08 Ian Thorpe Australia July 30, 2002 (the Thorpedo)
Womens
400 m 4:02.13 Laure Manaudou France August 6, 2006
As for the requirements here they are for those of you who don't have the PADI book. This is pretty accurate but I can't take credit for typing all of this out because I found it in previous post. Note the points system for the Imperial countries.
400 yard swim
(no aids such as fins, snorkel or mask using any stroke or combo of strokes)
6 minutes or less = 5 pts
6 - 8 minutes = 4 pts
8 - 10 minutes = 3 pts
10 - 12 minutes = 2 pts
12 minutes = 1 pt
15 minute water tread.
You can use a survival float.
(using no aids, hands must be out of water for last 5 minutes)
Perform satisfactorily = 5 pts
Stayed afloat but hands not out of water for 2 mins = 3 pts
Used side or bottom but no more than twice = 1 pt
800 yard timed snorkel swim
(using mask, fin, and snorkel but no BC/floatation aid, face in water without using arms to swim, nonstop)
13 minutes or less = 5 pts
13 - 15 minutes = 4 pts
15 - 17 minutes = 3 pts
17 - 19 minutes = 2 pts
Over 19 minutes = 1 pt
100 yard rescue diver tow
(wearing full scuba, push or tow diver 100 yards nonstop)
2 minutes or less = 5 pts
2 - 3 minutes = 4 pts
3 - 4 minutes = 3 pts
4 - 5 minutes = 2 pts
Over 5 minutes = 1 pt
You must score 12 out of possible 20 points to pass these tests.
Ok....I am done with my rant. Sorry so long.
My first time trying it I hit 9 minutes and was completely out of breath to say the least but I did not stop and I swam freestyle for the first 200 yards before doing a resting stroke for a couple of legnths and then went back to freestyle again to finish the last couple of legnths. Not bad but not great. You don't have to do all of these swims in one night. My technique was more than a little rusty and I am working on this but I never swam competitively but do enjoy swimming the laps. I agree and did exactly what many of you have stated. Go practice and get comfortable with the swim. My routine is to swim the 400 non stop and take a little break to catch my breath and check my time. Then I swim 50 yard sprints to get to 700 yards resting between each one to get my heart pumping and build my endurance. The last 50 is a struggle every time if you are really pushing it!! My times have been anywhere between 8:30 and 9:25 so at least I know my pace and am working on finding the right one for my fat gut. I would really like to beat the 8 min mark during the test and that is my goal. 20 years ago I could have done that with no problem but that makes little difference today. Either way I have found a workout that I really enjoy none the less.
Pools vs. Open water: Man I would LOVE do do this in open water but that is not possible for most of us. Colorado is water challenged at best and most of the lakes are FROZEN here at this point so an open water swim is out of the question since I am not a polar bear. If you live somewhere this is possible consider yourself lucky but I don't consider you better than people who don't. I would guess more than 90% of you wouldn't even be divers today if it were only available to people who did this. Pools are the only option for most of us and it is to the benefit of the industry that it is and I don't care if you are PADI, NAUI or SSI or whatever. The criticism to the contrary is insulting and not worth the effort to argue.
I also remember the old school pool I used to swim in that was 50 yards......and I miss it. Much easier but finding one of those pools anymore is near impossible indoors unless you have access to a college with a swim team. 25 yards is the standard today which means you have to do a lot of turns and use a lot of wasted energy doing it. It is not much of an aide in my opinion and as far as endurance you spend a lot of energy doing more turns than the benefit of pushing off in my opinion. I feel lucky because a friend of mine did it in a 15 yard pool at the LDS which is more laps than I could count while swimming. I am sure it would make me dizzy to do this.
Based on some of the posts some of you appartently think that you are olympic quality based upon the times you have posted. This may be true but being a skeptic I feel obligated to post the following world records. If you are within 30 seconds of these times PLEASE contact you Olympic committee because your country needs you. Yes I realize the difference between 400m and 400 yards but you get the point.
Mens
400 m 3:40.08 Ian Thorpe Australia July 30, 2002 (the Thorpedo)
Womens
400 m 4:02.13 Laure Manaudou France August 6, 2006
As for the requirements here they are for those of you who don't have the PADI book. This is pretty accurate but I can't take credit for typing all of this out because I found it in previous post. Note the points system for the Imperial countries.
400 yard swim
(no aids such as fins, snorkel or mask using any stroke or combo of strokes)
6 minutes or less = 5 pts
6 - 8 minutes = 4 pts
8 - 10 minutes = 3 pts
10 - 12 minutes = 2 pts
12 minutes = 1 pt
15 minute water tread.
You can use a survival float.
(using no aids, hands must be out of water for last 5 minutes)
Perform satisfactorily = 5 pts
Stayed afloat but hands not out of water for 2 mins = 3 pts
Used side or bottom but no more than twice = 1 pt
800 yard timed snorkel swim
(using mask, fin, and snorkel but no BC/floatation aid, face in water without using arms to swim, nonstop)
13 minutes or less = 5 pts
13 - 15 minutes = 4 pts
15 - 17 minutes = 3 pts
17 - 19 minutes = 2 pts
Over 19 minutes = 1 pt
100 yard rescue diver tow
(wearing full scuba, push or tow diver 100 yards nonstop)
2 minutes or less = 5 pts
2 - 3 minutes = 4 pts
3 - 4 minutes = 3 pts
4 - 5 minutes = 2 pts
Over 5 minutes = 1 pt
You must score 12 out of possible 20 points to pass these tests.
Ok....I am done with my rant. Sorry so long.
sea-squirt
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"Open water swim test wouldnt be fair in the uk. Firstly you'd have to wear a drysuit and therefore weight and its near impossible to swim in those without fins. Thats without the currents in lots of areas. Going in without exposure protection you'd get fatalities even in summer."
Ah String man you need to toughen up, you've gotten too used to your drysuit. I dive year round in a wetsuit in the irish sea and just put up with the cold- we're not in the artic you know, it aint that bad!
"Open water swim test wouldnt be fair in the uk. Firstly you'd have to wear a drysuit and therefore weight and its near impossible to swim in those without fins. Thats without the currents in lots of areas. Going in without exposure protection you'd get fatalities even in summer."
Ah String man you need to toughen up, you've gotten too used to your drysuit. I dive year round in a wetsuit in the irish sea and just put up with the cold- we're not in the artic you know, it aint that bad!
stephhhhh
Contributor
I'll take the exam of the swims tomorrow morning in open water!:blinking: Hope I'll do fine!
I've been training for 3 weeks almost everyday. And I can say that it helps cause my times are much better than at the beginning! Training is the only way to d it correctly!
I've been training for 3 weeks almost everyday. And I can say that it helps cause my times are much better than at the beginning! Training is the only way to d it correctly!
Ranting is good 
Just a quick thought. 30 seconds behind the women's world record is about 50m. That is actually quite far considering it is only 400m. If this is with no training then perhaps the Olympics are in the near future
Yip and some of us do those Robben Island swims in our Speedo's in Cape Town. Thats 10-13C for about 2 hours.
Just a quick thought. 30 seconds behind the women's world record is about 50m. That is actually quite far considering it is only 400m. If this is with no training then perhaps the Olympics are in the near futureYip and some of us do those Robben Island swims in our Speedo's in Cape Town. Thats 10-13C for about 2 hours.
I'm envisioning a post in Accidents and Incidents...
"RJP - a certified Rescue Diver and the DM leading the dive - explained to the wife of the deceased that although her husband was only 400yds from shore, RJP was unable to get to him in time to save him because there were no walls to push off."
I don't want to sound like a "swim nazi" but we're hearing from a lot of people about various strategies to "game" the swim requirement as opposed to ways to effectively meet the swim requirement.
- grab the wall
- pull yourself close to the wall with knees bent
- push off hard
- glide 1/4 to 1/3 length of the pool
"RJP - a certified Rescue Diver and the DM leading the dive - explained to the wife of the deceased that although her husband was only 400yds from shore, RJP was unable to get to him in time to save him because there were no walls to push off."
I don't want to sound like a "swim nazi" but we're hearing from a lot of people about various strategies to "game" the swim requirement as opposed to ways to effectively meet the swim requirement.
- grab the wall
- pull yourself close to the wall with knees bent
- push off hard
- glide 1/4 to 1/3 length of the pool
prthd9
Contributor
Finished my last month..
Not going to use the cert. though cause I am not goint to Put Another Dollar In (PADI) to join a freakin club
Not going to use the cert. though cause I am not goint to Put Another Dollar In (PADI) to join a freakin club
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