A different line question

[boulderjohn]

I have no advanced wreck certification. Most of the wrecks I have dived are pretty simple, well-lighted structures without enough silt to cause a real problem in even the worst of cases. This spring I had some experiences that lead me to ask a question to you more experienced wreck divers about protocols related to lines.

I was taking trimix instruction in Florida, and I did a number of relatively deep wrecks as a part of my training. Most of these were not very complex either. There was generally good light and nearly zero chance of getting lost in anything. Some of them, though, had lines in them already, laid by some diver in the distant past. My instructor, and some of the other divers on the boats I was on, grumbled about them. They were in the way; they were entanglement hazards. My instructor, who had no cave training, talked as if it were a cave diving idea run amok, and he said it as something of a challenge, knowing I was a certified cave diver. He said that if it were up to him, he would cut them out.

In caves, we generally see two kinds of lines. Some lines are permanent placements that have been carefully laid by professionals. Others are temporary lines that are removed when the owner is done with them.

The lines I saw in those wrecks were neither of these. They were poorly laid, with none of the characteristics of permanent lines. (No arrows, for example.) They had obviously been laid by someone long ago and then abandoned.

If they had been in a cave, they would have been removed long ago. My trimix instructor (and the others) were afraid to do that, though, because of some sense that you are not supposed to do that. I told him if it were up to me I would have taken them out.

So, for you experienced wreck divers, what do you do when you find line like this in a wreck?

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

Why not run line better and take the crappily run line out?

 

[rjack321]

Clean them up if you can. They are ocean trash, no different than abandoned nets, broken crab pots, and fishing line.

Cleaning up abandoned junk is more difficult and dangerous than you imagine. The line gets encrusted with growth, fixed to structures, and starts to get quite heavy, bulky and hard to keep in a managable wad. If you don't have cleanup as an objective with the right equipment and support on hand helping, I would leave it alone on a deco dive. I will do some impromptu cleanup on recreational dives gas/hazard permitting.

 

[Dive-aholic]

In caves, we generally see two kinds of lines. Some lines are permanent placements that have been carefully laid by professionals. Others are temporary lines that are removed when the owner is done with them.

Not true. There are no "professional line layers". I've seen some very poorly laid permanent line. If it's an area I'm in regularly, I will reroute it or replace it. I've also seen unknotted line in unsurveyed passage. I have replaced it with knotted line to do a proper survey.

Anyway, if it's a hazard, then pull it out. But heed rjack's warning. It can be a hazard to remove line.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I've noted the line in Florida wrecks as well. The Miller Lite was a good example with a line running down into and through the engine room. It was not well laid and was not laid in a path that made sense through the engine room and almost invited entanglement in a couple spots.

The practice of doing trimix training on deep wrecks is fine, but doing it inside a deep wreck when the diver does not have the required overhead cert is a standards violation for all training agencies that I am familiar with. In that regard it's probably ironic your instructor was griping about what he saw as a cave practice on a wreck, when he was clearly violating a training standard taking you in a wreck in the first place. He might want to consider not throwing stones at others just yet...

Laying line in a cave is a a bit of an art that requires practice as well as good spatial skills and some knowledge of and appreciation for the passage and how people will move through it. I know some very good cave divers who are just not great at laying line, and beyond more practice, I think it also comes down to differences in spatial ability.

Nylon also stretches over time when submerged, so in a passage with old line that sees little traffic loose line is pretty common and there a couple ways to deal with that short of replacing it. If it is not a problem (i.e. it won't create an entanglement hazard or impede a zero viz exit) leaving it alone is usually the the best option. In some areas of sidemount passages a slightly less taunt line may also be preferred, and I have bene in some passages with very soft and fragile rock that just won't tolerate a lot of tension in the line, so consider why the line is slightly loose as well before deciding to "fix" it.

 

[boulderjohn]

Not true. There are no "professional line layers". I've seen some very poorly laid permanent line. If it's an area I'm in regularly, I will reroute it or replace it. I've also seen unknotted line in unsurveyed passage. I have replaced it with knotted line to do a proper survey.

That's not exactly what I meant. I meant they were cave diving professionals, as you are. I have witnessed people who are "officially" supposed to tend the lines in certain caves discussing what needed to be done, and I have watched adjustments being made. I meant this in contrast to just any Yahoo going out and laying permanent line. in key locations in often dived caves.

 

[Dive-aholic]

LOL! I don't know that I'd call myself a professional. I'm just a cave diver who likes to lay line and every now and then teaches other divers how to cave dive.

 

[boulderjohn]

LOL! I don't know that I'd call myself a professional. I'm just a cave diver who likes to lay line and every now and then teaches other divers how to cave dive.

I was speaking in the technical sense. As a cave instructor, you are a cave diving professional, no matter how you rate your skills.

As for rating your skills, one thing I noticed in my cave training is that with many people, the higher they rise on the skill continuum, the less they seem to think of their own skills. I know that by the time I got full cave, I had no sense of bravado whatsoever. I had seen too many people whose skills far exceed any that I will ever have.