Air management for beginner.

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daniel f aleman:
I agree. What are you going to do about it?
See my tables in the post above. Takes the math out of planning for OW divers and gives 'em reliable numbers.
Still, they do have to actually keep track of their SAC rate.
And I do teach gas planning in all my classes, from OW to Technical Foundations and everything in between.
Rick
 
Why both even discussing deco tables? Deco is WAY more complicated and WAY less certain than gas planning. For beginning and resort divers would it not be more prudent to simply say "don't exceed 60 feet and come back within 60 minutes" and call it a day?
 
If you haven't already done so, see 2005's thread.. it has some good discussion on several techniques.
Rick :D
 
LOL!

Please note: The last reply in this thread was more than 23 month(s) ago.

How do you find these antiquities (or was it linked at the bottom of the page)?
 
Blackwood:
... linked at the bottom of the page ...
An often worthy resource :D
Rick
 
NWGratefulDiver:
Jasonmh:
It does drive me crazy that an instructor (or DM) would say "be back on the boat with 500psi" and not give that student the information to understand HOW to make it back to the boat with 500 psi.

Always stuck me as kind've like giving someone directions to your house and telling them to turn left six blocks before they get to the fire station ...
I think a more apt analogy is to say it's like always planning to make it to the gas station with a sixth of a tank left. And for all the same reasons.
---
"500 psi back on the boat" isn't a number without merit. It is about 13 CF in an AL 80, which just happens to be about right for your "average recreational diver" to make an ascent and five minute safety stop from the floor of the recommended recreational envelope of 100' (or an excited recreational diver to make the ascent without a safety stop), and so it reserves enough gas for an "average" air sharing ascent anywhere in the recommended recreational envelope. Of course there are exceptions, but "500 psi on the boat" is a pretty sound starting point.
What I'm saying here is that while not having the basic training to manage gas ain't good, dissing the "500 psi on the boat" rule is akin to throwing the baby out with the bath water.
Rick :D
 
I ain't dissing the rule, Rick ... I'm suggesting that if you want it to mean something you also need to tell 'em how to do it ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
I've been reading this thread with a lot of interest. I'm an engineer by trade, and appreciate the work and effort put into the "technical papers". They make for interesting reading. I admit I'm a geek.

Although I like the "hardware" side of scuba... the regulators, BC's, cameras, computers, etc... I got into scuba for the fun... not for the technical side (like tri-mix gas and deco). I like "looking at all the pretty fish and cool wrecks." And, I like staying safe.

Three years certified. AOW and Nitrox under my belt, and I'm looking to complete rescue and emergency first response this year. More than sixty dives under my belt, I'm very comfortable underwater, but, I'm nearly always the guy (of the guys in my dive buddy group) with the least amount of air at the end of a dive. I'm much better now than I was three years ago. Three years ago, I would suck an AL80 from 3000 to 500 psi in 30 minutes in 35 feet of water. Now, I can get 70 to 75 minutes on that same dive profile.

I've been reading thru the tables that Rick posted. Very interesting. My computer does SAC in cubic feet per minute. My watch in PSI per minute. The tables are in PSI per minute... no problem.

I'm looking thru the tables, and looking at my computer log book entries, comparing the PSI I actually did start an acsent to when the tables say I should have. (I hope that made sense).

Then, I compared SAC's for different dives. Deep dives, 80 to 100 feet, my SAC is about 45 psi/minute. Shallow dives, less than 40 feet, my SAC is about 25 psi/minute. That makes sense.

With a 25 psi/minute SAC, at a depth of 40 feet, the tables say I should have begun my ascent with 664 psi in my tank to be back on the boat with 500psi and safety stop, etc... sounds reasonable to me.

On a recent wreck dive to 100 feet, and a mild current (with an ascent line and 35 feet of viz), I had "planned" the dive to return to the ascent line (which was tied to the wreck in about 50 feet of water) with 750psi in my tank. My plan was for a four minute stop at 15 feet, and be on the boat with no less than 400psi, with obviously, no deco planned. This pretty much agrees with the chart.

I didn't dive my plan... I was looking around at all the cool stuff in 90 feet of water for a minute or two longer than I had planned. I was on the rope with about 650psi, and made a six minute safety stop (with the boat in sight overhead), getting out of the water and on the boat with about 300 psi in my tank. My buddy was with me the whole time, and had about 600 in his tank when he hit the boat.

I honestly didn't feel unsafe at any time during the dive... but reflection on the dive after reading thru this thread/discussion REMINDED ME that I didn't really leave any air for my buddy. If my buddy had a problem, and needed my air, we would have had a short safety stop at best, and been on the boat with next to nothing in the tank.

I wasn't a good buddy. Plain and simple. I should have been back on the ascent line with at least 750psi, the table says 830psi (with a 45 psi/min SAC rate)

I thought I was planning the dive pretty well...but now I know I could have planned it better.

I'm going to make a small copy of this chart Rick posted, laminate it, and keep it with my dive bag. It's a great little quick reference sheet. I'm going to use it during dive planning.

That being said. On an easy, lazy reef dive, with no current or surge, in 30 feet of water... with 80 feet of viz... and virtually no safety stop. I'll still come back to the boat with 400 psi in my tank, and feel good about it. :eyebrow:
 
NWGratefulDiver:
I'm suggesting that if you want it to mean something you also need to tell 'em how to do it

Not necessarily. I just think it needs to be qualified.

However, since the methodology is exceedingly simple and since doing it qualifies it, it ought be taught.
 
NWGratefulDiver:
I ain't dissing the rule, Rick ... I'm suggesting that if you want it to mean something you also need to tell 'em how to do it ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
And I sure do agree with that!
Rick
 
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