robint
Contributor
find a new buddy. Let him do the same.
Am I overreacting or not?
- Thread starter christo651
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rstofer
Contributor
Well, I think you are overreacting.
What you read on these forums (and all the others) is opinion, including this posting which is just MY opinion and it's proven to be worthless.
Some people have years of experience, others have the same experience for years. There's a difference. With experience and reflection you can separate the good stuff you read from the crap. You're new to diving and reading, that's a good thing. But it isn't experience.
I don't think I have read a thread about defining a good dive buddy. I think there must be a middle ground. It isn't good to assume the position of 'dive police'. Among other things, you assume a responsibility for the safety of others without the experience or capability. Kind of like being a Dive Master with no training.
It is also a bad idea to be a 'solo diver' in a buddy team. You should be in the neighborhood if things go wrong. With experience you will be able to anticipate problems because the last time you saw the situation it WAS a problem.
It's good to be prepared. Take the AOW and Rescue classes. In fact, encourage everyone you dive with to take them. The more Rescue Divers we have, the better. The more training you have the less stressful diving will be. It's normal to be concerned, underwater we are not in our natural environment.
But if you and your dive buddies can't come to terms with diving and safety, you would be better off to find other dive buddies. The last thing you need as new divers is some kind of friction. It's supposed to be fun!
I really think this will all work out if you folks just take more classes. Diving with an experienced instructor will lessen your concerns and perhaps enlighten your buddy to the risks. Maybe it will all smooth out with more training. In my view, new divers diving with other new divers isn't a good situation. But that's just another opinion.
Richard
What you read on these forums (and all the others) is opinion, including this posting which is just MY opinion and it's proven to be worthless.
Some people have years of experience, others have the same experience for years. There's a difference. With experience and reflection you can separate the good stuff you read from the crap. You're new to diving and reading, that's a good thing. But it isn't experience.
I don't think I have read a thread about defining a good dive buddy. I think there must be a middle ground. It isn't good to assume the position of 'dive police'. Among other things, you assume a responsibility for the safety of others without the experience or capability. Kind of like being a Dive Master with no training.
It is also a bad idea to be a 'solo diver' in a buddy team. You should be in the neighborhood if things go wrong. With experience you will be able to anticipate problems because the last time you saw the situation it WAS a problem.
It's good to be prepared. Take the AOW and Rescue classes. In fact, encourage everyone you dive with to take them. The more Rescue Divers we have, the better. The more training you have the less stressful diving will be. It's normal to be concerned, underwater we are not in our natural environment.
But if you and your dive buddies can't come to terms with diving and safety, you would be better off to find other dive buddies. The last thing you need as new divers is some kind of friction. It's supposed to be fun!
I really think this will all work out if you folks just take more classes. Diving with an experienced instructor will lessen your concerns and perhaps enlighten your buddy to the risks. Maybe it will all smooth out with more training. In my view, new divers diving with other new divers isn't a good situation. But that's just another opinion.
Richard
potato cod
Contributor
I agree that you should probably find a new buddy. There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to be more cautious underwater, especially as a new diver. If you have a cautious personality (and both my dive-buddy spouse and I do), you will probably never feel very comfortable diving with this guy or other more agressive/independent/laissez-faire-style divers and that's okay. There are lots of divers with lots of different diving styles/personalities, and I think you will really relax and enjoy diving a lot more once you find a buddy that has a style that matches yours.
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There's a saying in diving ... "There are old divers, and there are bold divers ... but there are no old, bold divers".
Which do you want to be?
Based on what you posted, I'd recommend finding a different dive buddy. I'm not going to pass judgment on how you or your buddy choose to dive ... but having someone who shares a compatible outlook as yourself is critical. In diving, you do not want a buddy relationship that invokes a "push-pull" sort of dive where one buddy is trying to solo and the other buddy is trying to keep up. That induces stress on the part of both divers ... and stress will ultimately lead to bad decision-making. Bad decision-making increases the risks of an accident considerably.
Good dive buddies, first and foremost, share a common outlook on how the dive is to be conducted. If you don't have that, then you have no basis for a buddy team ... and however much you enjoy each other's company out of the water, you have no business diving together.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
Which do you want to be?
Based on what you posted, I'd recommend finding a different dive buddy. I'm not going to pass judgment on how you or your buddy choose to dive ... but having someone who shares a compatible outlook as yourself is critical. In diving, you do not want a buddy relationship that invokes a "push-pull" sort of dive where one buddy is trying to solo and the other buddy is trying to keep up. That induces stress on the part of both divers ... and stress will ultimately lead to bad decision-making. Bad decision-making increases the risks of an accident considerably.
Good dive buddies, first and foremost, share a common outlook on how the dive is to be conducted. If you don't have that, then you have no basis for a buddy team ... and however much you enjoy each other's company out of the water, you have no business diving together.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
Given your friend's current attitude, he is quite simply NOT a good buddy. If you feel you need to dive with a good buddy, you should find someone else. Let him know that you would love to dive with him again if either of you adjusts your thinking to become more compatible with the other's perspective.
By the way, I don't know about the whole "checking your buddy's gauge" thing. I don't recall ever doing that myself; I'll often give the "what's your air?" sign when I dive with new divers, but I'll take their word when they signal a number of simply an "OK," because we'll have gone through turn pressure and contingencies before the dive. I've never had anyone feel insulted for being asked what their gas is, and I've never felt insulted for being asked. If someone checked my gas without asking, I'd be a bit perturbed but would understand that they're doing so for safety, which is more preferable than the alternative.
By the way, I don't know about the whole "checking your buddy's gauge" thing. I don't recall ever doing that myself; I'll often give the "what's your air?" sign when I dive with new divers, but I'll take their word when they signal a number of simply an "OK," because we'll have gone through turn pressure and contingencies before the dive. I've never had anyone feel insulted for being asked what their gas is, and I've never felt insulted for being asked. If someone checked my gas without asking, I'd be a bit perturbed but would understand that they're doing so for safety, which is more preferable than the alternative.
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b1draper
Contributor
I've ran into people at both ends of the spectrum "lot of experience" to "just a few dives". I've ran into people who forget to check their depth and or pressure guages and have to have someone remind them. I've caught at least two people over the years who were at 70' with less than 500psi and still diving; they were shocked to find they were almost out of air.
Every dive I go on I communicate with my buddy. I ask "You OK", "What's the reading on your pressure guage", etc. Asking these questions helps me decide if I should stay a minute longer to look at this fish or not. Or even if I have time to cut some tangeled fishing line and pick up some trash.
Every dive I go on I communicate with my buddy. I ask "You OK", "What's the reading on your pressure guage", etc. Asking these questions helps me decide if I should stay a minute longer to look at this fish or not. Or even if I have time to cut some tangeled fishing line and pick up some trash.
Do you see the basic theme? If you and your buddy are not in sync on the dive plan and do not concur of what makes a good team, keep looking for a new buddy.
Some divers never find that perfect dive buddy, some of us are very fortunate to have one. I know of a few people where on land, they dont get along or even like each other, but when diving, they make a great team.
Just realize that you can have land based friends that you will not dive with and hopefully you will find a buddy or two that consider you the perfect buddy.
The best part of looking is that you will get to dive more often. Have fun in your search!
Whether or not your buddy want's to solo or not isn't the question... it's what YOU feel comfortable with. I can't say that either of your are fundimentally *right* or *wrong*... you just have different comfort levels and risk tolerances. The thing is that nobody has a "right" to force anybody into their personal diving style... that's one of the surest ways to make for an unhappy dive on somebody's part.
If your buddy want's to solo... that's his choice... but electing to do so mid-dive is makeing a choice for YOU... and I'm not good with that. As other's have said here... "Find a new buddy..."
As for 'guage checks'... while I agree that a responsible diver stays aware of their dive situation... I'll also add that how you and your buddy choose to execute your dive is up to YOU... not me... not anybody else. If you want to spend your time checking each other's air... I respect your choice to do so... if your buddy doesn't want to play this way... the ball is in your court, you can choose to dive the way your buddy wants or you can find a new buddy. Either way, you're the one who lives with the consequences or benefits of your choices.
The big thing here is the fundimentals of "PLAN YOUR DIVE... dive your plan"... you're the diver... buddy choice is part of dive planning... not a default.
If your buddy want's to solo... that's his choice... but electing to do so mid-dive is makeing a choice for YOU... and I'm not good with that. As other's have said here... "Find a new buddy..."
As for 'guage checks'... while I agree that a responsible diver stays aware of their dive situation... I'll also add that how you and your buddy choose to execute your dive is up to YOU... not me... not anybody else. If you want to spend your time checking each other's air... I respect your choice to do so... if your buddy doesn't want to play this way... the ball is in your court, you can choose to dive the way your buddy wants or you can find a new buddy. Either way, you're the one who lives with the consequences or benefits of your choices.
The big thing here is the fundimentals of "PLAN YOUR DIVE... dive your plan"... you're the diver... buddy choice is part of dive planning... not a default.
OP
christo651
Registered
When I checked his air it was our first dive in the gulf. we had been apart awhile and me being me, just wanted to be a good buddy. I already knew he was more cavalier about safety as he dos not wear a seat belt when driving either. these are our first dives and I do not want to start out with bad habits. I was reading about the differences of DIR diving and they explained it well there. Some people feel DIR is to restrictive and some people like the routine. I feel that I would be one to lean toward DIR and he would not enjoy it nearly as much as me. But I do not want this to get in the way of a 20 year friendship. I was personally insulted that he would just discount what I was trying to share with him. In our friendship I am the one who does the research, programs the gps, finds new places to go, gets directions, etc. I am not policing his dive as much as knowing we are both new to the sport and will need time to adjust to all the variables that can come our way. We all make mistakes in life and I have been with him when some were made, despite the fact that I have warned him about doing certain things. That came out wrong, when you are with some one and you see them about to do something that clearly you see will be a problem and let them know, yet they do it anyway. He is one of those guys. The conversation got heated when I requested he learn to stay within eyesight. As how could he be of any help to me or me to help him if he cannot see me or does not know where I am.
I received alot of advice in this thread. Mostly that I should calm down and not let this get in the way of our friendship. I agree with staying behind the hunter and taking turns in hunting, but to back off and not know where your buddy is, especially while hunting is beyond dangerous at our skill level.
He wants to rush out and go deep, I want to learn my gear and build my skills in shallower water.
He wants to all get out of the boat and I say we should have someone topside especially 20 or so miles from shore. I suggest he try his VHF before we leave the dock, he wont even raise the antenna or plug it in until he needs it, I say put the cover over the batteries before you launch, he would rather pull the drain plug later when we are underway to clear out water. I say you need a working bilge pump left on with a float control, he says nah. See the pattern. Just alot of things we did not consider before signing up together. He has many skills that I do admire but his lack of concern for safety really rubs me the wrong way.
If I do not dive with him he will be diving alone, so what is worse. Me being reluctant to dive with him but at least I am there if I can help, or just let him go his own way, and get a black suit?
I received alot of advice in this thread. Mostly that I should calm down and not let this get in the way of our friendship. I agree with staying behind the hunter and taking turns in hunting, but to back off and not know where your buddy is, especially while hunting is beyond dangerous at our skill level.
He wants to rush out and go deep, I want to learn my gear and build my skills in shallower water.
He wants to all get out of the boat and I say we should have someone topside especially 20 or so miles from shore. I suggest he try his VHF before we leave the dock, he wont even raise the antenna or plug it in until he needs it, I say put the cover over the batteries before you launch, he would rather pull the drain plug later when we are underway to clear out water. I say you need a working bilge pump left on with a float control, he says nah. See the pattern. Just alot of things we did not consider before signing up together. He has many skills that I do admire but his lack of concern for safety really rubs me the wrong way.
If I do not dive with him he will be diving alone, so what is worse. Me being reluctant to dive with him but at least I am there if I can help, or just let him go his own way, and get a black suit?
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