AOW certification help!
- Thread starter UCFDiver85
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There is a BIG difference between a CAVE dive and a CAVERN dive. PADI does NOT teach or sanction its Instructors to CAVE dive. It DOES, however, teach CAVERN diving.
Regardless, it is against PADI standards to take OW students into a cavern!
PADI requires anyone doing a Cavern dive to "....be certified as a PADI Advanced Open Water Diver or have a qualifying certification from another training organization...."
The Instructors on your dive were in violation of PADI Standards.
~SubMariner~
I knew there was no way even PADI sponsered bringing newly qulaified people into overhead inviornments (even if it is not a true cave).
I would question the practice of bringing AOW people into that situation. You can be AOW with <10 open water dives. So tack on the 5 or so you need to get cavern and you have somone that truely does not know how much they don't know.
We all like to push limits and I know this very true of a lot of people after they have 10 or 20 dives under their weight belt. There is a fine line from where you can see ambiant light from the opening of a "cavern" and when you are in the darkness of a "cave"......
All it takes is a couple more kicks "hey this is cool" some silt and the game is over.
I just think there should be a tighter requirement still to go into such a place.
I would question the practice of bringing AOW people into that situation. You can be AOW with <10 open water dives. So tack on the 5 or so you need to get cavern and you have somone that truely does not know how much they don't know.
We all like to push limits and I know this very true of a lot of people after they have 10 or 20 dives under their weight belt. There is a fine line from where you can see ambiant light from the opening of a "cavern" and when you are in the darkness of a "cave"......
All it takes is a couple more kicks "hey this is cool" some silt and the game is over.
I just think there should be a tighter requirement still to go into such a place.
Not to belabor the point or sound condescending, but I think you truly do not understand what constitutes an overhead environment, nor what the difference is between cave and cavern diving.
ANY dive where there is NOT direct and immediate access to the surface is diving in an overhead environment. IOW, if you have to swim horizontally for ANY length of time or distance BEFORE you can get out, then you are in an overhead environment.
For example, wreck penetration is also considered diving in an overhead environment.
I reiterate, if as an PADI OW diver/student your Instructor took you in a cavern, cave, or other overhead environment, then he/she was in direct violation of PADI Standards.
I am NOT trying to make you appear foolish or berate you; I just want you to understand that every diver must think BEFORE they hit the water.
~SubMariner~
ANY dive where there is NOT direct and immediate access to the surface is diving in an overhead environment. IOW, if you have to swim horizontally for ANY length of time or distance BEFORE you can get out, then you are in an overhead environment.
For example, wreck penetration is also considered diving in an overhead environment.
I reiterate, if as an PADI OW diver/student your Instructor took you in a cavern, cave, or other overhead environment, then he/she was in direct violation of PADI Standards.
I am NOT trying to make you appear foolish or berate you; I just want you to understand that every diver must think BEFORE they hit the water.
~SubMariner~
WELL SAID AND EXACTLY ON POINT.
I predict you will be buying more stuff soon.
Some LDS and instructors will get you into the AOW practically after your OW cert dive.Really a cash flow thing.
If you were my student I would prefer you to get 20 more dives in befor going on. 23 years ago I had to do just that ,as that was the way it was.
I believe IT WAS a good idea. Does NAUI still require 20 experience dives before going onto advanced?
Ron
Some LDS and instructors will get you into the AOW practically after your OW cert dive.Really a cash flow thing.
If you were my student I would prefer you to get 20 more dives in befor going on. 23 years ago I had to do just that ,as that was the way it was.
I believe IT WAS a good idea. Does NAUI still require 20 experience dives before going onto advanced?
Ron
Not comparing one cert agency to another here... but the SSI approach of training plus experience for AOW appeals to me. I like my students to get the training early on. When possible, I like to get deep, wreck, nav and night/limited vis and lastly diver stress & resuce in as soon as possible.
It's my personal belief that the added training is to the new diver's benefit and better to have the knowledge before you experience the environment than to experience the environment without knowing what you're doing imho.
Generally by the time they've completed open water certification and four specialities they will have between twelve and twenty dives and are comfortable enough to start stress and recue which, imho, does more to help news divers understand diving risks than anything else and, usually, by the time they finish S&R they're around 24 dives which qualifies them for SSI AOW certification... but the knowledge came first and I sincerely believe that's important.
The best of all worlds to me is when I can sign a non-diver up to go straight from class one to advanced open water in a single course... typically a one to two week dive training vacation... this gives me an extended time to truely work in detail with a student and teach beyond the basics: get them accustomed to the water and then teach the finer points. Being able to take that much time is priceless. When I can spend fifteen to twenty some odd dives working with a new diver I can walk away knowing in my heart that they truely are trained and ready to be a real diver and not just "certified"
After all... "experience is recognizing a mistake when you make it again" -- otoh... education means recognizing it before it happens.
Hey UCFdiver85,
The best thing you can do is get in the water. AOW class gives you academic training for specific specialty diving and of course, takes you diving in those situations under supervision. Is it a good program? Yes, because diving is all about being prepared, but first you must get comfortable in the water. Some divers are ready to take the training directly out of OW class and many are not ready until they have many, many dives under their belt. Of course only you will be able to be the judge of that by your comfort level. Even if you do deside to take the program immediately after your OW dives this weekend and do all the dives associated with the AOW class, you will still not receive the rating until you have completed more dives on your own. Under SSI's standards you can train for AOW whenever you chose, but will not receive your card until you have 24 logged dives.
See ya Sunday
The best thing you can do is get in the water. AOW class gives you academic training for specific specialty diving and of course, takes you diving in those situations under supervision. Is it a good program? Yes, because diving is all about being prepared, but first you must get comfortable in the water. Some divers are ready to take the training directly out of OW class and many are not ready until they have many, many dives under their belt. Of course only you will be able to be the judge of that by your comfort level. Even if you do deside to take the program immediately after your OW dives this weekend and do all the dives associated with the AOW class, you will still not receive the rating until you have completed more dives on your own. Under SSI's standards you can train for AOW whenever you chose, but will not receive your card until you have 24 logged dives.
See ya Sunday
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