Bogie
Contributor
Safety first. The more training and the more experience the more competent diver you will become. Investing in you life is always worth it.
AOW curriculum/value??
- Thread starter browntrout
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Brishar
Contributor
I've been diving for close to six years now, cross trained from NAUI, PADI, and SSI.
Logged 223 dives in varying conditions. Hold a master diver c-card.(no big deal)
Helped out a buddy, whose son was part of a sea scout group getting their open water certifications. I was just another pair of eyes (rescue diver) watching, not teaching.
One of the five instructors really stood out from the other four. The way he taugt was fine but the way he dove was incredible. He dove dry, everybody else was wet, he wore a BP/W, everybody else had a poodle jacket or a back inflate. He used a long hose, not a regular rec set-up. His buoyancy control could be measured in inches, not feet. Yea, he is a SSI instructor, but also a DIR instructor.
I want to dive like that some day. Guess who I take from now.
Logged 223 dives in varying conditions. Hold a master diver c-card.(no big deal)
Helped out a buddy, whose son was part of a sea scout group getting their open water certifications. I was just another pair of eyes (rescue diver) watching, not teaching.
One of the five instructors really stood out from the other four. The way he taugt was fine but the way he dove was incredible. He dove dry, everybody else was wet, he wore a BP/W, everybody else had a poodle jacket or a back inflate. He used a long hose, not a regular rec set-up. His buoyancy control could be measured in inches, not feet. Yea, he is a SSI instructor, but also a DIR instructor.
I want to dive like that some day. Guess who I take from now.
This has to be said as a reminder every time this question gets asked.
Words have different meanings in different contexts. Scuba diving agencies generally use the term advanced to mean the certification level above basic open water. The fact that someone else has a different definition for the term really doesn't matter.
Are there any other places you could go to take your classes?
My buddy, who runs a training business, and I have come up with a course outline through SDI/TDI for our AOW training we will be offering to candidates. It includes Advanced Buoyancy, Navigation/ Limited Viz, Deep and Intro to Wreck. We also recommend the TDI Nitrox Course if you plan on going farther.
If there is no other option, I recommend staying OW until a better option surfaces. Experience is the key. When I took my AOW class, I learned nothing until the skills portion. There was not even classes for most of my courses in AOW. This is a big reason I am helping this other instructor come up with a course offering with skills you might actually use and with the book and head knowledge to boot.
My buddy, who runs a training business, and I have come up with a course outline through SDI/TDI for our AOW training we will be offering to candidates. It includes Advanced Buoyancy, Navigation/ Limited Viz, Deep and Intro to Wreck. We also recommend the TDI Nitrox Course if you plan on going farther.
If there is no other option, I recommend staying OW until a better option surfaces. Experience is the key. When I took my AOW class, I learned nothing until the skills portion. There was not even classes for most of my courses in AOW. This is a big reason I am helping this other instructor come up with a course offering with skills you might actually use and with the book and head knowledge to boot.
However, I think every diver needs to take rescue. If PADI requires it, I know SDI did, I might take the class now and work toward rescue. I learned a lot of skills there, even though I have been a first responder and lifeguard for years.
It sounds to me as if you are going to do the AOW work in Homestead Crater. Is that correct?
If so, you may want to check and see if your shop has other options. As Lynne suggested, a good instructor can make these experiences very good for you, but that is a limiting environment.
It is not just the depth. The overall size of the environment is not good for navigation. If you want to do search and recovery, it is not great for that either. You can't do fish identification or underwater naturalist.
The one good thing is that you can do night dive at high noon.
If so, you may want to check and see if your shop has other options. As Lynne suggested, a good instructor can make these experiences very good for you, but that is a limiting environment.
It is not just the depth. The overall size of the environment is not good for navigation. If you want to do search and recovery, it is not great for that either. You can't do fish identification or underwater naturalist.
The one good thing is that you can do night dive at high noon.
Buoyant1
Contributor
Experience is great, but! Some charters REQUIRE that you have this card to do what is known as "advanced dives"! Are you planning on taking some trips that MAY require you to have an advanced card?
Sure you've done night dives, and you've done some deeper dives. I was in the same situation. I didn't take my AOW until I had about 45-50 dives in, I had been deep. I've done a few night dives, I've played with navigation a bit, but didn't have the card. Now don't get me wrong, there ARE dive operators that will look at your log book and check if you've done some advanced dives and let you go on their trips, but some will FORCE you to dive with a DM if they think you aren't "qualified". Personally, I should be the person that makes the choice if I'm qualified to do certain dives. (and I'm not talking doing something stupid like diving on the Andrea Doria without being tech trained, I'm talking recreational dives only) But the lawyers, and insurance companies require that you have a little training, so go spend the money, get what you can out of the courses, learn what you can with what they give you!
Let's see...I had some navigation practice, and was familiar with the dive site when I did my navigation module, I already had some good pointers before I did my peak buoyancy class, I had done a few night dives, I had been to, and knew where the "deep" attraction was, so I was sent down first, and led the deeper portion of the module, and I had already messed with a lift bag for my search and recovery module...so I pretty much did it, and got my card, and can now hand it over without having to go through the "well you don't have the card so you can't _____" crap!
You can do a search, and find hundreds of threads listing the pros and cons of AOW...is it REALLY advanced? Should I do it right after OW or wait until I have about 20 dives in? Is one agency better than the other?
Trust me...do it, get the card and be done with it...if you're lucky you'll find a great instructor that will teach you something new, the worst that can happen is, you part with some $$$$ but, you get 5 dives and a card that saves a lot of hassles!
Sure you've done night dives, and you've done some deeper dives. I was in the same situation. I didn't take my AOW until I had about 45-50 dives in, I had been deep. I've done a few night dives, I've played with navigation a bit, but didn't have the card. Now don't get me wrong, there ARE dive operators that will look at your log book and check if you've done some advanced dives and let you go on their trips, but some will FORCE you to dive with a DM if they think you aren't "qualified". Personally, I should be the person that makes the choice if I'm qualified to do certain dives. (and I'm not talking doing something stupid like diving on the Andrea Doria without being tech trained, I'm talking recreational dives only) But the lawyers, and insurance companies require that you have a little training, so go spend the money, get what you can out of the courses, learn what you can with what they give you!
Let's see...I had some navigation practice, and was familiar with the dive site when I did my navigation module, I already had some good pointers before I did my peak buoyancy class, I had done a few night dives, I had been to, and knew where the "deep" attraction was, so I was sent down first, and led the deeper portion of the module, and I had already messed with a lift bag for my search and recovery module...so I pretty much did it, and got my card, and can now hand it over without having to go through the "well you don't have the card so you can't _____" crap!
You can do a search, and find hundreds of threads listing the pros and cons of AOW...is it REALLY advanced? Should I do it right after OW or wait until I have about 20 dives in? Is one agency better than the other?
Trust me...do it, get the card and be done with it...if you're lucky you'll find a great instructor that will teach you something new, the worst that can happen is, you part with some $$$$ but, you get 5 dives and a card that saves a lot of hassles!
OP
browntrout
Contributor
Actually that is one positive they won't be doing any of the dives in the crater. Blue Lake will be for the navigation and the deep dive. Not sure what they have planned for an altitude dive. The fee for the class will also include Nitrox cert which will come in handy down the road.
I would have failed those people if I would have even let them start the class to begin with. Poor attitude will get you turned down for my AOW class. Disregard for procedures, especially safety will get you thrown out of it. No refund, just bye bye. Like Bob (NW Grateful) I see AOW as much more than just a card and that is why I do not accept just anyone for the class.
I offer 6 core dives- Advanced Skills, UW Nav, Night/Low Vis, Deep, Search and Recovery, and Buddy Skills and Assist. I will sub wreck for S&R but that's it. Buoyancy and weighting are worked on every dive. Students must be able to perform all basic skills neutral and horizontal in mid water before starting the course. I may require pool sessions and a couple OW dives to verify skill and comfort levels (at my expense on my time). Buddy skills are strictly enforced. One separation is an accident. Two is not. There is never a good reason for buddy separation in my class.
I teach gas planning, deco procedures, bag shooting, use of slung pony bottle, deep stops, and multilevel diving as part of the overall course. If you want a card to just do dives where the ops require it then this probably is not the course for you. If you want new skills, confidence, knowledge, and increased safety and comfort then it just may be. I include the rescue skills we teach in OW class such as unconscious diver from depth, panicked diver, and rescue tows. I also throw in buddy assisted no mask swims and ascents, no mask air share swims and ascents, and loss of buoyancy assist ascent and support. I do not do tour dives. Every dive has skills that must be performed to my satisfaction. The course has been called enlightening, educational, tough, humbling, and even credited with improving communication between couples!
It is also alot of fun and I love teaching it.
krawlings
Contributor
I am. Going to do my Advanced diver in March .All my dives will be done in Key Largo.Deep dive ,Navigation ,Night dive, and 2 other dives of my choice I have 28 dives loged as of now. I will have 3 or so more dives buy March.The average depth of my dive has been at 50'to 60'level. I have all so have many dine(7) in the 70' to 105' range ,105' being the deepest I have been .I have had lots of low viz dives (3' to 10' viz) in the local lakes neer my home I am ready to see more things that the AVD c-card will allow me.to (charter boats)and to expose me to other aspects of diving that I. haven't experienced yet.I donkt think it is a waste of time or money .I think you get out of it what you put in to it.
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