Are PADI OWD allowed to teach scuba diving during pool demos?

[knotical]

It could well have changed since '05 ...

It has.

Not sure when it first started, but the following is copied from a PADI Divemaster Discover Scuba Diving Internship Completion Form dated January 2008:

PADI Divemasters in Active Status (and with insurance, where required) may conduct PADI Discover Scuba Diving programs in a pool or confined open water environment after successfully completing a Discover Scuba Diving internship. The internship consists of conducting four separate PADI Discover Scuba Diving programs in a pool or confined open water environment under the direct supervision of a PADI Instructor.

They're now called DSD Leaders (as well as DiveMasters), as I mentioned in post #2 in this thread.

 

[beanojones]

It's worth pointing out that PADI has been made well aware that people who are not free to refuse to teach a certain way are at the base of the problem.

It has been pointed out to them again and again that allowing companies to import labor that is tied to a shop is a recipe for standards being thrown out the window. PADI's direct and complete response to that is a big shrug.

The nicest current example I know of first hand is a Japanese shop teaching open water in around two total hours in the water. At least they spread it over two days! The amazing thing is that there are some Japanese instructors busting their ass to make it work, as best it can. I have been pretty impressed by some of the divers a couple of them have been able to produce. But then again, I actually know the conditions they managed it in.

PADI's complete out on the matter is built on the fact that the member is the sole person responsible for standards violations, which is just utterly and completely ridiculous. As anyone who has been involved in machinations about PADI QA process knows, PADI's standards are there to separate PADI from potential liability by isolating the members from the agency.

 

[Hickdive]

The OP isn't a DMC, they're a diver working towards DMC status and they're simply taking hotel guests on an introduction to scuba, not an actual DSD.

The whole process I suspect is carefully worded and managed to ensure no-one is ever told that it is or isn't a PADI-sanctioned course or experience for the hotel guests. It is merely a non-PADI marketing tool by the dive centre which can operate at this level to whatever "standard" they choose as no PADI certification is gained by the participants. Although I suspect there'll be lots of PADI branding about to help the uninitiated make the assumed link for themselves between 10 minutes in the pool and an actual PADI course or experience.

This is how you make money in scuba diving folks; trainee trainers paying for the privilege of taking paying trainees.

 

[RJP]

Here's the Participant-to-PADI Pro ratios for the four different types of DSD dives, directly from the most current Instructor Manual...

Thank you to everyone who has commented,

After reading the questions regarding myself and my intentions. I hope to clarify some things:

OP - Can you also clarify your claims as to who Dressel is allowing to conduct Discover Scuba Diving Programs? I notice there's no further discussion about those claims in your follow-up post. (Note to folks above: at a PADI 5-Star Dive Center there can be no such thing as an "Introduction to Scuba" program that is not a "PADI Discover Scuba Diving" program. So there's no out for a resort to allow anyone but the PADI Pros outline above to conduct any such program under the ruse of calling it something else.)

---------- Post added March 14th, 2015 at 10:55 AM ----------

I am curious as why they need to recruit foreigners to work at their dive center. Certainly there must be enough local residents with language skills to hire to staff the center. Especially if the applicant doesn't need any previous diving experience.

The local residents won't work for no pay... much less PAY for the privilege of being trained to become a DM which will allow them to work for no pay anywhere in the world.

 

[DownbelowDiver]

Hi Derek


Wow! No, that’s absolutely NOT allowed by PADI Standards!

Even a diver as experienced as a Divemaster-in-training isn’t allowed to teach a non-certified diver.

In the instance that a fully qualified Divemaster assists an Instructor, and said Instructor has already delivered the initial demonstration, the student may practise the skill to develop mastery of the skill under the supervision of the assisting PADI Divemaster.

As a matter of fact, PADI Standards have allowed for Divemasters to experience some teaching when candidates have satisfactorily completed a PADI Discover Scuba Diving Leader internship.
This requires – as quoted from the PADI Instructor Manual 2015 – for the candidate to conduct ‘four separate real (not simulated) PADI Discover Scuba Diving programs in confined water under the direct supervision of a PADI Instructor.’

For those Divemasters who, for whatever reason, are not ready for the PADI Instructor Development Course (IDC), teaching the confined water dive of the DSD program will develop their instructional skills, particularly underwater CONTROL!
IDC graduates would agree that underwater CONTROL is tested in the professional dive training because of the higher level of responsibility as a PADI Instructor!

 

[le_scuba]

my 2 cents on dressel as theres alot of questions on scuba board and people asking about the company in general and alot of hot air and misinformation.

pool demos are NOT teaching. Anyone can grab a tank and reg and get in the water. Its a demo, not a certification course. Dressel is a well funded company that has been in business for a long time, Im sure they have the required insurance and lawyers consulted before carrying out this sort of thing. If you have any doubts on wheter or not a 5 star PADI dive shop located in a 5 star hotel should be allowed to do this, please call PADI and file a report because you will not get any answers here.

 

[tursiops]

Here is the problem....someone who does not know what they are talking about, talking about it anyway.
DSD is not a certification class either....but it certainly must operate under PADI's standards.
A "pool demo" is an experience program....and if someone were to get hurt, who do you think will be in the hot seat?
"Dressel is a well funded company that has been in business for a long time, Im sure they have the required insurance and lawyers consulted before carrying out this sort of thing."
Now there is a compelling reason!
I expect operating in Mexico has a lot more to do with their willingness to break standards than any insurance or lawyers they may have.

 

[RJP]

I expect operating in Mexico has a lot more to do with their willingness to break standards than any insurance or lawyers they may have.

To be fair - and I have no dog in this fight - but I've not seen any support for broken standards other than the OPs initial rant. Which seemed to be clearly posted based on an agenda he had which had nothing to do with PADI standards and everything to do with his disillusionment over how "go pro in paradise" internships work.

When people who know what they are talking about started asking him to clarify exactly who was being allowed to do what down there... he dropped that part of the discussion from his follow up posts. When asked directly about that... he disappeared completely and hasn't been back since.

 

[tursiops]

To be fair - and I have no dog in this fight - but I've not seen any support for broken standards other than the OPs initial rant. Which seemed to be clearly posted based on an agenda he had which had nothing to do with PADI standards and everything to do with his disillusionment over how "go pro in paradise" internships work.

When people who know what they are talking about started asking him to clarify exactly who was being allowed to do what down there... he dropped that part of the discussion from his follow up posts. When asked directly about that... he disappeared completely and hasn't been back since.

Good points.
I don't even have a dog, much less one in this fight, but it pains me to see someone say it is not a certification class so no standards are either involved or being broken.
I noted the OP's disappearance too....I guess he did not get the unwavering support he'd hoped for.

 

[mills705]

I know the situation the op is discussing here....
I doubt it will happen much in the US based markets however in Europe this is quite common I believe.
Someone (usually a DM or instructor) will have to walk around a pool for an afternoon or morning trying to entice people to have a go at scuba with premise that if they like it then they will sign up for a DSD the next day or whatever.
There is no paperwork... and basically you just get them to jump in and get them to put a mask on and away they go with you beside them obviously. I once worked for a company that tried to make me do this. I lasted a day or so before I quit as it did not sit right with me at all. The company was ran by two people (both qualified divers but not through PADI) and their son (16 at the time) helped out. The son would be the person doing the looking after of people whilst the Mother did the selling and the conversations about the diving. You can see why it didnt sit right!
I wouldnt want to be involved in a company that did this. Some people just should not breathe compressed air (extreme asthmatics for example) and no medical questions asked does not go well! Its an accident waiting to happen.