Article: Shearwater Announces Nitrox Recreational Mode for Petrel

[Progen]

Well, considering how strong you are coming, Omisson, it seems that you are just as stubborn. There is a reason why many preach a KISS philosophy. Is it really so necessary to have a wireless transmitter on what is meant primarily as a technical dive computer? I have used one in the past with my Vyper Air for a few months before I sold it off because it just wasn't worth the trouble to have to keep an eye on my kit all the time just in case unknowing boat crew tried to help by lifting my rig by the transmitter thinking that it was a handle. And there are some who say to mount it on a short hose to prevent that which I wanted to do but then thought against it since that would be extra cost and IMHO more than one more failure point since the hose can leak at any point along its length and at either ends too.

ps. Actually, in my avatar, despite its size, it's quite obvious that I had a wireless transmitter on my left tank.

 

[kelemvor]

I don't see why it has to be all or nothing. If they added a wireless capability to a future model it doesn't mean everyone has to use the feature. Just as the new nitrox recreational mode does not have to be used by everyone. Options. If this computer had a wireless option, it would have every feature you could possibly want in a computer from technical to recreational. It's already got everything else, and clearly shearwater has at least some interest in the recreational market.

 

[Omisson]

Well, considering how strong you are coming, Omisson, it seems that you are just as stubborn. There is a reason why many preach a KISS philosophy. Is it really so necessary to have a wireless transmitter on what is meant primarily as a technical dive computer? I have used one in the past with my Vyper Air for a few months before I sold it off because it just wasn't worth the trouble to have to keep an eye on my kit all the time just in case unknowing boat crew tried to help by lifting my rig by the transmitter thinking that it was a handle. And there are some who say to mount it on a short hose to prevent that which I wanted to do but then thought against it since that would be extra cost and IMHO more than one more failure point since the hose can leak at any point along its length and at either ends too.

ps. Actually, in my avatar, despite its size, it's quite obvious that I had a wireless transmitter on my left tank.

Not coming on strong, just being logically consistent.

What I don't find acceptable is a "because I said so" statement that tells newbies something that simply isn't true (you use a transmitter in a technical dive, and you will die) and leave it stand unchallenged.

As is I repeatedly said, transmitters should not be a primary tool in a tech dive, only a backup data source. Redundancy is a key facet of Tec diving, and therefore an AI has a place. No more, no less.

 

[Nuribromanski]

Transmitters also have a second battery in them that can fail. The trasnmitters I have seen are all big things that can get bumped, tangled in something, and are expensive. They are also not needed. And it only takes one time for the signal to be lost at the wrong time or transmitter to fail and you are messed up or dead. It is not like an OW dive where if it fails you just go up, cuss it, take it off and put on the spg you should have been.using in the first place. You may not have the option to go directly up.
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i dont use wifi gas display or even hose digiital gas display, bc i think spg is simpler. but ur full of bs if u think wifi gas is more likely to make u "messed up or dead."

failed gage doesnt change what gas u have left, and while i agree wifi gas is probably more likely to stop working, it seems likely to stop working in way that's safer than some failure mode for spg. what i mean by this is that wifi gas will probably just stop displaying anything, where spg might get stuck and show more gas than u have. u shuld know spg isn't telling u what ur brain is and realize spg is stuck and wrong, but still, main drawback of wifi gas is just complexity not how dangerous its failure is.

 

[drrich2]

On threads where newbies ask about what computer to get, I see the Shearwater computers (e.g.: Petrel) advocated. The idea seems to be that they make fine recreational diving computers, even if you never go into tech., and if you are one of the relatively small minority that eventually goes into tech., the computer is ready (assuming you won't want a new computer by the time that happens anyway).

And obviously it's in Shearwater's interest to sell Petrels at a profit, and a big surge in sales in the recreational market would reasonably be expected to benefit the market.

Adding A.I capability for those who want it, and perhaps giving it an optional 'Recreational Mode' to cater to the different customer segment, ought not to take away too much from continuing to delivering quality product & service to the current customer base, while at the same time expanding into a new market.

I'm strictly a recreational diver. I like glancing at my wrist to see depth, PSI and NDL, all convenient. I've got a console computer that I also use, so if the transmitter loses connection more than briefly and craps out entirely (though transmitter unreliability seems to be grossly exaggerated in some threads, when speaking of the recreational market), I can still look at my console and keep on diving.

And anybody who doesn't want A.I. capability can dive without it. I used my Oceanic VT3 quite awhile before I got around to putting a transmitter on my reg. & getting A.I. function set up, so I've done it both ways. It is not a big deal to choose.

Richard.

 

[Nirvana]

Regarding the reason for not having a redundant SPG, be it mechanical or a wireless transmitter, is that one is simply not needed. If you discover your SPG is not working during the dive, you abort it and get out of the water. If you had a second SPG you would do exactly the same thing: end the dive and get out of the water.

At the moment you are exiting the water, knowing the pressure of the tank your are using is superfluous. You have whatever amount of gas that is there. Hence carrying and additional SPG does not provide any advantage, just another failure point.

 

[Omisson]

Regarding the reason for not having a redundant SPG, be it mechanical or a wireless transmitter, is that one is simply not needed. If you discover your SPG is not working during the dive, you abort it and get out of the water. If you had a second SPG you would do exactly the same thing: end the dive and get out of the water.

At the moment you are exiting the water, knowing the pressure of the tank your are using is superfluous. You have whatever amount of gas that is there. Hence carrying and additional SPG does not provide any advantage, just another failure point.

Obviously you don't understand the thread. In Tec diving you can't simply "get out of the water". Knowing how much gas you have is ESSENTIAL to addressing your deco obligation... As in can you or can't you make it.

 

[Progen]

My take is that if you want it, you can have it but with a wireless transmitter, your extra failure points will be :-

1. The flimsy connection to the 1st stage. Sure a port plug can leak but how many of those cases cannot be rectified by a simple tightening? Technical rigs are usually more complicated with more pieces of equipment than a recreational one so the chances of something pressing or knocking that big lug loose is higher.

2. Battery as mentioned. One extra bit to worry about. Well, you might be one of those who have considered about battery redundancy too and carry spares which in this case, just discount the battery argument but I think cost is an extra factor since I don't exactly make big money.

3. Communication loss. So far it had only happened to me once and that was on the surface. Changing the channel resolved that but if I'm down there, one less thing to worry about is good news.


I will HOWEVER say that YES, it is convenient to be able to know your remaining pressure by looking at your wrist which was why I did use it for quite a few dives before selling it off.

 

[Nirvana]

Obviously you don't understand the thread. In Tec diving you can't simply "get out of the water". Knowing how much gas you have is ESSENTIAL to addressing your deco obligation... As in can you or can't you make it.

Yes you can get out. In fact, you must or you will drown. The way out is just usually longer in technical dives.

The fact that there may be a deco obligation or a navigation through a wreck or cave doesn't change the point that an SPG will not change your gas reserves. The correct gas amount and type is selected before the dive. Once it starts, all one can do to try and end with larger reserves is to abort the dive earlier. As you abort the dive, you proceed out doing whatever deco stops and gas switches that the plan called for.

Hopefully, you don't find out as you exit that you failed catastrophically on your planning as to run out of gas. In case you did, you follow whatever contingency may be appropriate, be it having gas donated by a team member or switching to a poorer deco gas and using a contingency deco schedule. The same thing if an accident or mechanical failure compromises part of your gas.

On a final note, are you really advocating technical divers carry a wireless transmitter on every tank they have and add to the existing tasks that of ensuring all transmitters are properly synchronized and are in agreement with the mechanical ones?

 

[victorzamora]

Obviously you don't understand the thread. In Tec diving you can't simply "get out of the water". Knowing how much gas you have is ESSENTIAL to addressing your deco obligation... As in can you or can't you make it.

Obviously I don't, either. Are you saying that a cave diver or tech diver turning a dive EARLIER than planned due to failure might cause them to run out of gas? If so, I'm not a cave diver or tech diver at all! I've always PLANNED how much I'd need. Turning early means I have no need to even check my pressure because I know I'll have more than plenty.

A wireless transmitter IS another failure point, and is NOT needed redundancy....as was pointed out above. If you DO need redundancy, why not a second mechanical spg? Or a button gauge? Either way, MUCH cheaper, much less task loading, and much slimmer chance of failure.

On the topic of "Why not add it to the Petrel"....you're right, I wouldn't have to use it. However, it adds cost to the unit (R&D and hardware per unit) that I don't want to incur. Most tech divers would agree that if there's no need for something, there's no reason to bring it.....it's another thing to fail in the computer, hardware and software. Shearwater is doing the right thing, sticking to the people that look out for them and looking out for us in the process.

Back on the ORIGINAL topic, I think the Recrational Nitrox mode is really cool. It's a clean, simple setup that really makes it stand out in my book. I prefer the traditional "Tech" style, but that's because I appreciate the extra information. However, if my wife ever dives it I'll be extremely tempted to switch it over to Rec mode for her. If I do that, I might have to buy HER a Petrel.