attaching hoses, can I do this or LDS?

[PerroneFord]

Andy, it's no mystery why the cave shops have business out the door, and some of these other clowns are complaining about losing sales to the internet. Last time I was at S***O in H.S., they were preparing to ship about a dozen lights out to someone in Asia. What's that, about $15,000 in sales on one internet order?

Whatever, I'll keep shopping at CEE, CE, EE, and the rest of those shops that go out of their way to help customers.

 

[miketsp]

..snip..
on top of that I am truly amazed at the level of inorance involved in some of this advice. silicone or cristolube are used on dynamic (moving) o-rings. Static o-rings, like those on hose ends, or tank valves are not generally lubricated.
..snip..
what is it called when somone offers advice that is against the best interests of the advisee?

malpractice

Since I am one of the posters that recommended lubricating I would like to know how you intend to screw in a hose fitting without the oring having to slide against one or both surfaces?
There is indeed risk of damage to the oring due to tearing if all components are absolutely clean & dry. The oring distortion as it grips the walls will affect the torque measurement which can be critical in applications with soft materials like brass.
The oring on a hose is relatively small compared to the fitting size but the general rule when fitting screw down oring enclosures is to Wet Torque.
You will find the following or similar in many oring manufacturers guides:
Lubrication not only produces a more consistent coefficient of friction, it increases clamping force on sealing area with less torque on the threads. Over tightening causes
threads to yield, deform, and therefore lose their ability to maintain an adequate load or clamping force on the seating area. Extended operation and severe conditions cause further yielding which results in leaks. It is our firm position that to not wet torque is to compromise consistency and quality for convenience.

Example of instructions from major manufacturer for straight screw-in oring fittings.
STEP 1. Inspect all components for damage or contamination.
STEP 2. Lubricate o-ring and threads on fitting.
STEP 3. Turn fitting into port until finger tight, then torque to the
value shown in the following tables.

You will even find in many manuals (I just checked some from Aqualung) a recommendation to lubricate the first 2 turns of the male thread.

Although it is considered more acceptable to not Wet Torque when the oring does not have to move significantly during installation, example retained by a static flange fixed in place by bolts that do not contact the oring, most oring manufacturers & distributors still include lubrication as part of the installation process.

So maybe you should be amazed at your own ignorance.

 

[PerroneFord]

Maybe we should change the spec from Christolube to astroglide...

 

[SparticleBrane]

I've worked at a dive shop before and I believe that there are both types of customers as described in the thread.
There are those who, if you treat them well, will (most likely) always return to you, even if your products are slightly more expensive.
Then there are those who will do anything to save money and go wherever it's cheapest and always want a discount (just because they were given a slightly discount once) or want stuff for free. While these are more annoying (*gasp* did I just say that about the customer?!) than the first kind--they're usually less in number.


As to not making money on air, you're definitely correct. Air is a service. Making money on Nitrox is a different matter--you can make money on Nitrox. Personally I see that going out of style after a few years (hopefully!)

After having worked at a shop I'll say that I am not particularly loyal to one specific shop. If I can I'll buy from where I worked (if they carry the line of gear that I want) but I currently live two hours away from them, and there are ~4 dive shops where I currently live. There's no point in me driving 2 hours just to get xyz piece of scuba gear, and my previous boss knows that and he's obviously not offended if I shop elsewhere. If I'm in town I swing by to see how everyone is doing and I might pick up a small piece of gear if I need it. If they don't carry that line of gear then I won't buy from them, obviously, and they understand it. That's just how the market goes.

I believe there are also other factors that should be considered as well. Right now I'm going to shop wherever I can get the gear for cheap regardless of customer service (unless they are a jerk to me! They at least have to be halfway nice). I'm in college and am not particularly rolling around in money. In fact I have $53 in my bank account right now...so at the moment it's really coming down to price. Service is GREAT, don't get me wrong; but like I said I think there are circumstances where $$ is the big selling point.

As to Perrone's astroglide...I am still laughing.

 

[SparticleBrane]

PerroneFord--open up some PM space so I can send you a message!

 

[PerroneFord]

I'm afraid the astroglide AND the Christolube are out of your price range. There's always Crisco.

 

[PerroneFord]

PerroneFord--open up some PM space so I can send you a message!

Ok, done.

 

[Tsalagi]

Obviously this is a controversial subject, so I'll throw in twist on a an example of my own.

Let's assume you're new to the area and need to find me a new shop to frequent for fills, equipment, and misc stuff we always seem to need.

I go to buy me a new BC and regulator at shop XYZ, everything seems great except
they're out of stock on my BC size and I really want the stuff now. So I buy the regulator at a fair price from shop XYZ and drive across town to shop ABC that has the BC size, in stock, and at a fair price...so far it's been a great experience at both shops.

On the way home from shop ABC I realize the inflation hose needs to be attached to the reg so I stop by XYZ on the way home to have the hose attached and they say, that'll be 20 bucks because you didn't buy the BC from me. I ask myself "what is this guy smoking, an hour ago I spent 400 bucks on a reg from this guy"

So now I'm a little miffed, drive back to shop ABC where I bought the BC and they say, no problem, I'll even show you how to do it since it only takes a couple minutes.

Where are you going to be shopping in the future? Which would you recommend when you buddy says he's shopping around for some new gear?

 

[Rick Murchison]

Obviously this is a controversial subject, so I'll throw in twist on a an example of my own.

Let's assume you're new to the area and need to find me a new shop to frequent for fills, equipment, and misc stuff we always seem to need.

I go to buy me a new BC and regulator at shop XYZ, everything seems great except
they're out of stock on my BC size and I really want the stuff now. So I buy the regulator at a fair price from shop XYZ and drive across town to shop ABC that has the BC size, in stock, and at a fair price...so far it's been a great experience at both shops.

On the way home from shop ABC I realize the inflation hose needs to be attached to the reg so I stop by XYZ on the way home to have the hose attached and they say, that'll be 20 bucks because you didn't buy the BC from me. I ask myself "what is this guy smoking, an hour ago I spent 400 bucks on a reg from this guy"

So now I'm a little miffed, drive back to shop ABC where I bought the BC and they say, no problem, I'll even show you how to do it since it only takes a couple minutes.

Where are you going to be shopping in the future? Which would you recommend when you buddy says he's shopping around for some new gear?

Under those circumstances you've invested in both shops; both shops would - if they have a lick of sense - include the hose attachment as a favor. What we've been talking about is your walking in cold with hose and reg and no investment in the shop and feeling like it's unfair for the shop to charge for the service. That is the scenario that's just wrong.
Rick

 

[SparticleBrane]

Definitely shop ABC. Shop XYZ seems to be a jerk--he needs to understand supply and demand. He couldn't supply you the BC in the proper size even though there was a demand for it. So....tell him to lighten up, as you needed the BC right then and he couldn't help.

The other thing is that he shouldn't get mad at you about the BC in the first place--does he KNOW that you bought it from ABC? You went back in to XYZ attach a reg hose, not say "I bought a BC from someone else nah nah nah nah nah" and stick out your tongue! Him attaching a reg hose is (IMHO) part of buying a reg from a LDS. I would hope that after buying this $400 reg setup they would be nice enough to attach one of the hoses that they FORGOT to attach.