Bail out options for Dolphin

[Life-Is-Good-Diver]

Hi,

I'm was wondering, what are the options for bail-out, B/C , drysuit, on a Dolphin ?

I'm diving mostley 60' reefs here in Florida, and usalley carry a 13cf tank, slung under my arm, for bail-out.

I then use the other 13cf on the right side of my Dolphin, in the bag, and I connected my B/C , and drysuit hose to that one.

I do have a Air2 on my inflator , so I can bail off my primary gas as well, considering the tank mix, and MOD.

So I would really like to run just my alum 27cf tank, and one 13cf tank, the 27cf tank having the Air2 also.

Then I would like to run the B/C off of the main breathing tank also?

I would like to run my drysuit off the one 13cf tank, and also use it for bail out. That would elimate one 13cf tank.

Problem is, would I have enough gas to do a 1 hour dive, on a 60' reef, with a tank mix of 50% on a 60 orfice? 60 orfice is 5.8 LPM, Im not sure if I would drain the tank down using it for B/C inflation also? Also I do use the 50 orifce and 40 orfice, so that needs to be taken into consideration.

Or, do I keep my current configuration, which is 27cf tank for breathing gas, and Air2. One 14cf tank for B/C and Drysuit only. One 13cf tank for bail-out only. I'm trying to elimate the two 13cf tanks, and goto one, but I want to make sure I always have enough bail out, and enough B/C inflation.

I all ready made a mistake, and did 4 dives on the 13cf for B/C, and ran outta air for my B/C on the 4th dive , and had to shoot a lift bag, so now I carry a extra 13cf tank, and after 2 dives, I switch out for a fresh one for the next 2 dives that day.

what is everyone doing...... ?

Happy Holidays also !

I posted this also on RBW, but didnt get any responces yet

 

[caveseeker7]

Am surprised you have the Air2 hooked up to the onboard tank.
Usually the BC, with or without integrated bailout, is hooked up to the bailout tank.
IIRC the Dolphin I saw sitting in shop didn't even have an inflator hose long enough
to reach the nitrox tank.

What valve/1st stage setup do you use?

The Dolphin's stock 1st stage operates at a much higher IP than normal 1st stages,
just checked the Service Manual, 16,7 bar/242 psi. The stock AP inflator is limited
to 13.5 bar, and the Air2 isn't supposed to run off that IP either.

Anyway, back to your question, tough call.

I like my bailout to be separate from the RB, I usually use a 3 ltr tank.

The BOV currently runs off the onboard diluent, the stock configuration.
Enough for a sanity breath or three ... though I'd prefer nitrox for that, too.
BCD also runs off the onboard tank. So far I like it, keeps hoses neat and the RB
self-contained.

In the past the drysuit was hooked up on the onboard dil, too.
One more hose, no extra tank. Been mulling over that one, though.

Yet another tank, or going to a larger bailout tank and run the ds off that.
Means I can't pass it off and keep my ds supplied ... then again, I'll likely be
going up and venting, anyway. I certainly like the idea of not blowing dil with
my ds, and adding some redundancy to the bcd.

On the other hand I like to keep it simple, like less clutter ...
as I said, I'm mulling over it.

On the Dolphin at least you got space opposite the bailout tank.

2 liters for bailout from 60 ft should be fine, but I wouldn't use it for anything else.
Still leaves you with three tanks, am afraid I'm not much help ... .

But I do wish you a merry christmas, and a bailout free new year.

 

[Mr.X]

Hi,

I'm was wondering, what are the options for bail-out, B/C , drysuit, on a Dolphin ?

I'm diving mostley 60' reefs here in Florida, and usalley carry a 13cf tank, slung under my arm, for bail-out.

I then use the other 13cf on the right side of my Dolphin, in the bag, and I connected my B/C , and drysuit hose to that one.

I do have a Air2 on my inflator , so I can bail off my primary gas as well, considering the tank mix, and MOD.

So I would really like to run just my alum 27cf tank, and one 13cf tank, the 27cf tank having the Air2 also.

Then I would like to run the B/C off of the main breathing tank also?

I would like to run my drysuit off the one 13cf tank, and also use it for bail out. That would elimate one 13cf tank.

Problem is, would I have enough gas to do a 1 hour dive, on a 60' reef, with a tank mix of 50% on a 60 orfice? 60 orfice is 5.8 LPM, Im not sure if I would drain the tank down using it for B/C inflation also? Also I do use the 50 orifce and 40 orfice, so that needs to be taken into consideration.

Or, do I keep my current configuration, which is 27cf tank for breathing gas, and Air2. One 14cf tank for B/C and Drysuit only. One 13cf tank for bail-out only. I'm trying to elimate the two 13cf tanks, and goto one, but I want to make sure I always have enough bail out, and enough B/C inflation.

I all ready made a mistake, and did 4 dives on the 13cf for B/C, and ran outta air for my B/C on the 4th dive , and had to shoot a lift bag, so now I carry a extra 13cf tank, and after 2 dives, I switch out for a fresh one for the next 2 dives that day.

what is everyone doing...... ?

Happy Holidays also !

I posted this also on RBW, but didnt get any responces yet

Your drag underwater has to be significant in its present config.. Diving in a warm enough wetsuit would solve the need to inflate the drysuit in Fla. Using a slung 40 Luxfer bailout is a nicer way to go vs. a slung 14 which is really, no gas at all. But then again, if you're diving at rec. depths and rec. limits you could probably go in Dolphin standard mode?

X

 

[Life-Is-Good-Diver]

Thanks Stephen and Mr. X , I apprecaite the comments.

I just got back home from diving the Dolphin all day again.

Here's what I learned today.

After two dives to 55' I still had 2300 PSI in my 13cf tank , that I was using for B/C and Drysuit ony. That leaves me on the first dive approx 11cf and the 2nd dive approx 9cf , if I wanted to use that tank with my 27cf tank, as I have the Air 2 on that tank.

I had alittle under 1400 PSI after the dive, so i switched tanks between dives, and used anotother fresh 27cf tank. So really I had approx 13cf of bail out on my rear tank, 50% mix at
55', I still could breath it for accent, and I had the least 9cf left on my B/C tank. So between both tanks, I had around 22cf of air to bail from 55' .

Now SAC rate comes into effect.

Lets say I bailed at 55' , normelly I can do over a 60 min dive and come up with around 800 PSI, on a ALUM 80, diving O/C. In the Keys, I'm the only one on the boat, that does two 30' reefs for a hour on each, and still come up with around 800 PSI, using 1 tank for two 30' dives. All my friends ask If I breath underwater, lol, fact is im really comfortable, and dive DIR style, very streamlined, and use very little motion, to conserve energy.

So according to that, I would have over 20 min of bottom time on those to given tanks alone, without having to sling a 3rd.

One question is, under a emergency , my SAC rate would double I'm sure, so that would still leave me 10 min from bottom to surface.

So do I really need the 3rd tank slung ?

As far as slinging a 40cf, I been doing that for years with my doubles, as i own two of them, but I was going to use that option for anything below 60', thats what I normelly do with O/C anyway.
Some people carry 19cf, but given strong currents somtimes on the bottom, I wouldnt want to rely on a 19cf as bail out from 130' 0r 100', Id rather just carry my 40cf tank and have enough

Problem I'm experiancing is, carrying my DSLR set up, I have enough drag between that, my drysuit, and the Dolphin, I'm one big parachute underwater

Talk about going from a Halycon B/P wing set up, DIR style, very streamlined, to a diving hardware store underwater, LOL

So I'm trying to eliminate the 3rd bail out tank, keeping my diving 60' or less. Anything past 60' , I'll just carry my 40cf tank .

So after today, Heres where I'm at:

Run the B/C off the main tank, with the Drysuit ? And use the 13cf tank strickley for bail out?

Or I could run the B/C off the main tank, and drysuit off the bail out, as I only use a couple of puffs to get down to 60'.

Or I could sell the drysuit, just dive wet, run the B/C off the 13 cf tank, and also use it for bail out?

Saftey comes first, and i dont want to jeperdize not having enough bail out, as thats like breaking one of the #1 rules of diving a rebreather.

Lastley, I have to weigh in diving the Dolphin wet, but today I used 22lbs in fresh water to hold me down with two 13's with my drysuit, I would be around 26 to 30lbs of ditchable weight If I dove it in salt water, and had my camera,,thats ALOT of weight, but it sure is nice coming outta the water dry, I got spoiled diving dry, even here in FL, where yes, the water does tend to go below 70, So i dive my TLS 350 with a 150 gram undergarment, and I'm perfect, i could stay down there all day

Merry Christmas to you and your familys, and may the new year bring another year of safe bubble-less diving, Thanks for your help

 

[Life-Is-Good-Diver]

Stephen,

I forgot to mention,

The newer Dolphins come with a Air-2 , so its adjusted to their Ip, on their first stage.

Ive seen the same ones on a few of them.

Your right, I have a scuba pro air-2, and I didnt put it on the Dolphin because of the difference in the Ip Address , so I keft their little crappy one on their, lol

If you want I can send you a pic of it by email

 

[Mr.X]

Thanks Stephen and Mr. X , I apprecaite the comments.

I just got back home from diving the Dolphin all day again.

Here's what I learned today.

After two dives to 55' I still had 2300 PSI in my 13cf tank , that I was using for B/C and Drysuit ony. That leaves me on the first dive approx 11cf and the 2nd dive approx 9cf , if I wanted to use that tank with my 27cf tank, as I have the Air 2 on that tank.

I had alittle under 1400 PSI after the dive, so i switched tanks between dives, and used anotother fresh 27cf tank. So really I had approx 13cf of bail out on my rear tank, 50% mix at
55', I still could breath it for accent, and I had the least 9cf left on my B/C tank. So between both tanks, I had around 22cf of air to bail from 55' .

Now SAC rate comes into effect.

Lets say I bailed at 55' , normelly I can do over a 60 min dive and come up with around 800 PSI, on a ALUM 80, diving O/C. In the Keys, I'm the only one on the boat, that does two 30' reefs for a hour on each, and still come up with around 800 PSI, using 1 tank for two 30' dives. All my friends ask If I breath underwater, lol, fact is im really comfortable, and dive DIR style, very streamlined, and use very little motion, to conserve energy.

So according to that, I would have over 20 min of bottom time on those to given tanks alone, without having to sling a 3rd.

One question is, under a emergency , my SAC rate would double I'm sure, so that would still leave me 10 min from bottom to surface.

So do I really need the 3rd tank slung ?

As far as slinging a 40cf, I been doing that for years with my doubles, as i own two of them, but I was going to use that option for anything below 60', thats what I normelly do with O/C anyway.
Some people carry 19cf, but given strong currents somtimes on the bottom, I wouldnt want to rely on a 19cf as bail out from 130' 0r 100', Id rather just carry my 40cf tank and have enough

Problem I'm experiancing is, carrying my DSLR set up, I have enough drag between that, my drysuit, and the Dolphin, I'm one big parachute underwater

Talk about going from a Halycon B/P wing set up, DIR style, very streamlined, to a diving hardware store underwater, LOL

So I'm trying to eliminate the 3rd bail out tank, keeping my diving 60' or less. Anything past 60' , I'll just carry my 40cf tank .

So after today, Heres where I'm at:

Run the B/C off the main tank, with the Drysuit ? And use the 13cf tank strickley for bail out?

Or I could run the B/C off the main tank, and drysuit off the bail out, as I only use a couple of puffs to get down to 60'.

Or I could sell the drysuit, just dive wet, run the B/C off the 13 cf tank, and also use it for bail out?

Saftey comes first, and i dont want to jeperdize not having enough bail out, as thats like breaking one of the #1 rules of diving a rebreather.

Lastley, I have to weigh in diving the Dolphin wet, but today I used 22lbs in fresh water to hold me down with two 13's with my drysuit, I would be around 26 to 30lbs of ditchable weight If I dove it in salt water, and had my camera,,thats ALOT of weight, but it sure is nice coming outta the water dry, I got spoiled diving dry, even here in FL, where yes, the water does tend to go below 70, So i dive my TLS 350 with a 150 gram undergarment, and I'm perfect, i could stay down there all day

Merry Christmas to you and your familys, and may the new year bring another year of safe bubble-less diving, Thanks for your help

Cheers!

As an RB instructor I always try to pare things down to the simplest, safest and most streamlined configs. Realistically, the Dolphin is "floatier" and more "truck-like" due to its constant mass dosing and larger shell design. Because of those facts it does need a lot of weight to offset the inherent buoyancy, plus the side-mounted configs. of the attached bottles can alter the center of gravity for some divers.

What I've done in the past is:

*Use a heavier backplate - Fred T 16-17 pounder, or two 6 pound plates cobbled together. That, or some Deep Sea Supply plate weights attached. The hip mounted weight belts I feel are always such a drag, and a hip-dropper.

* Use heavier bailout. Sometimes I just like taking an 80 AL for the heck of it. Naturally, a 40 is fine for rec. limits. Once I'm in the water the 80 Luxfer is no biggie.
Minor difference there really with regards to the offset, but the reg. mass at the end of the tank can help with position/diving attitude. It's probably a throwback to my Doria days where I liked carrying multiple 80's. It felt good, but sometimes I needed help getting off the bench!

* Run my drysuit off the 80'. This can be a pain if you need to hand it off though. With the KISS I have a plug-in whip connection to the manifold. It allows me to run all my gases off the 80 and not use much from the dil. bottle. I do wish Drager had designed some plug-&-play capacity into the original design...aka a manifold.

When I use an Insp. or Meg. , or KISS I have them all to the point where I need zero weight with a drysuit in saltwater. The inflation gas is a 8 cu. steel, or 16 cu. Faber steel. The latter is OK for at least 4 dives in the rec. zone. Also, I strap on a hip-mounted canister light which takes care of a few pounds here and there. Sometimes I use a dinosaur Barry Miller SLA 14. Usually, it's a Barry Miller Lion canister.

If anything, it's always interesting to see evolution taking place around the center node - the RB in either physical changes to the unit, or personal accommodation... style and added accoutrements. The biggest & coolest change I see with the Dolphin, is the conversion to a full CCR using KISS style injection. Very cool, and certainly changes the unit around into what becomes a full-performer.

Best,

X

 

[Life-Is-Good-Diver]

Thanks Mr.x I apprecaite the inside to your diving. Sounds like you have a it configured and balanced well.

I agree with the CCR conversion with the Kiss valve, I actualley dove my friends like that a few times, and loved it.

There are a few considerations to going CCR on the conversion, that makes me lean towards a sport kiss before doing it.

A few things are, cost of the conversion, by the time you ad the B/P wing adapters, which is $400.00 , the kiss valve, at $600.00 , DS4 at $200.00 , lines, etc, and then add the po2 monitering, your probley over $2k , into a unit that I paid $1,600.00 for, total cast would be over $4k.

The Sport Kiss has the attachment for the B/P wings, has the triple Po2 montering, which is redundent of each other, which i love , and a few other considerations, like the size's of the hoses, and WOB, as the Dolphin is know for its poor WOB.

I may still do this conversion, but theres another problem I face if doing it.

I sold my boat, and am diving off charter boats now, and they all will not allow me to dive the converted Dolphin, which I can understand, because I'm outta my SCR certifaction , which means I'm not insured if somthing would happen on their boat.

From the half dozen boats that will let me dive the SCR , I have a C-card for it, so they allow it, some even though I have the C card,, will now allow rebreathers period, which to me is no loss, I don't need them either, they need us divers to stay in buissness, so to eachs own.

I think the CCR Dolphin was and is still for some , a great way to get into CCR diving, alot cheaper then going to a full CCR unit, because even with a sport Kiss, by the time you buy the unit, wings, bottles, training etc, your still over $7,000.00

Back to the weighing of the Dolphin.

So do you think i will be able to dive the Dolphin wet with less then 10lbs?

I havnt tried it yet, I need to this week, as I only been diving it dry.

As far as bail out, I'm going to go with one 13cf tank on the right side, for running my B/C and drysuit, and bail out. Every two dives I'll switch it out for a fresh one, as at the least I will still have 6cf to bail from 60' , and plus what ever is in my main tank, as I have a Air2 on it.

I really would like to add a 2nd bag on the other side,so I have a balanced Dolphin, and a deciated 13cf for bail out.

I'm looking for pony brackets to screw to the side, so i can flip them upside down, and have two 13s.

I read somwhere they cost like $325.00 which i dont want to spend.

Thanks for your help, Its greatley appreciated

 

[Mr.X]

Thanks Mr.x I apprecaite the inside to your diving. Sounds like you have a it configured and balanced well.

I agree with the CCR conversion with the Kiss valve, I actualley dove my friends like that a few times, and loved it.

There are a few considerations to going CCR on the conversion, that makes me lean towards a sport kiss before doing it.

A few things are, cost of the conversion, by the time you ad the B/P wing adapters, which is $400.00 , the kiss valve, at $600.00 , DS4 at $200.00 , lines, etc, and then add the po2 monitering, your probley over $2k , into a unit that I paid $1,600.00 for, total cast would be over $4k.

The Sport Kiss has the attachment for the B/P wings, has the triple Po2 montering, which is redundent of each other, which i love , and a few other considerations, like the size's of the hoses, and WOB, as the Dolphin is know for its poor WOB.

I may still do this conversion, but theres another problem I face if doing it.

I sold my boat, and am diving off charter boats now, and they all will not allow me to dive the converted Dolphin, which I can understand, because I'm outta my SCR certifaction , which means I'm not insured if somthing would happen on their boat.

From the half dozen boats that will let me dive the SCR , I have a C-card for it, so they allow it, some even though I have the C card,, will now allow rebreathers period, which to me is no loss, I don't need them either, they need us divers to stay in buissness, so to eachs own.

I think the CCR Dolphin was and is still for some , a great way to get into CCR diving, alot cheaper then going to a full CCR unit, because even with a sport Kiss, by the time you buy the unit, wings, bottles, training etc, your still over $7,000.00

Back to the weighing of the Dolphin.

So do you think i will be able to dive the Dolphin wet with less then 10lbs?

I havnt tried it yet, I need to this week, as I only been diving it dry.

As far as bail out, I'm going to go with one 13cf tank on the right side, for running my B/C and drysuit, and bail out. Every two dives I'll switch it out for a fresh one, as at the least I will still have 6cf to bail from 60' , and plus what ever is in my main tank, as I have a Air2 on it.

I really would like to add a 2nd bag on the other side,so I have a balanced Dolphin, and a deciated 13cf for bail out.

I'm looking for pony brackets to screw to the side, so i can flip them upside down, and have two 13s.

I read somwhere they cost like $325.00 which i dont want to spend.

Thanks for your help, Its greatley appreciated

Mucho dinero this RB stuff, especially conversions. I appreciate the feedback re: homebuilts. Reminds me of something I need to bring to someone's attention, re: liability. The Sport Kiss is a nice unit, though I wish all the Kiss's had some ability to dump water. However, the smaller profile is quite nice.


Best,
X

 

[Life-Is-Good-Diver]

Well to follow up, I had a friend today that had a extra bag for the side of the Dolphin, so we put the 2nd bag on the other side, so now i have dual bags on the Dolphin, one on each side.

I plan on running B/C and Drysuit off one, leave the main tank for just breathing mix, and if needed I have it for bail out also, but it is not considered into bail out, for only the reason as the tank pressure will change all the time depending on how long of a dive I do, and I can't calculate bail out, not knowing how much nitrox will be left in the tank, because all my diving is different, so I deceided it can't be used for bail out.

So the other 13cf tank, will be strickley for bail out, with a dependent reg and pressure gauge.

On deeper dives then 60', I have a 19cf, 30cf, and a couple of 40's ,.so I have plenty of options to consider for bailout diving down to 130', and that will be chosen on my dive profile for that day.

I'll see how it goes, drag etc, and let everyone know how I like the set up.

One thing I did today also was, I ordered the Extend-Air, so I dumped probley 5 lbs beteen the Dolphin scrubber and the fill , and in turn that will allow me to add the extra 13cf tank, which weights around 5.5lbs I belive .

I'm diving all weekend again with it, so I'll keep everyone posted.

Thanks for your help

 

[Life-Is-Good-Diver]

Dam, this thing is heavy!!

I dove today, with the set up as dual 13's, one on each side, and forget it!!

I could barley kick this thing through the water.

I came home, and weighed it, with a full tank of gas ( Drager 29cf steel tank, ) and
dual luxfer 13's , one on each side.

Total weight was 74.4 lbs, I cant even pick it up !!

I'm dropping a 13, and will switch out 13's after 2 dives. I dropped the drysuit hose off, and am going back tomorrow to dive in salt water , with a wetsuit on.

I had 22lbs in it to dive dry, and dropped it down to 14 lbs diving it wet, and I'll see where I trim out there.

So by loosing 8 lbs diving dry, and loosing a 13 lbs tank, thats 21 lbs, I'm hoping to weigh in ready to dive less then 50 lbs.

I'm working on everything and switching around hoses now, will follow up tomorrow when i return.

Hopfully I dont even need 14lbs of weight, I'm hoping to drop down to none!