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Agent 47

Contributor
Messages
251
Reaction score
2
Location
Clearwater Beach, Florida
# of dives
100 - 199
I'm looking at buying a backplate/wing combo soon. I used to dive a Black Diamond BC, and at the time I bought it, it was an awesome upgrade from the jacket BC's I'd been renting. After some time though, it just wasn't good enough any more. (Not nearly good enough.) Now I'm looking at backplates.

I've been to quite a few manufacturer's websites...OMS, Oxycheck, Diverite, DSS, Hammerhead....but I don't know anyone who's actually used this stuff who isn't an LDS employee. Not knocking sales people, but it seems they all want to sell me on the fact that whatever they happen to have in stock at the moment is the best thing going. (Ok, maybe I am knocking sales people. :) Where I live many of them will tell you ANYTHING to get a sale.)

Anyway, any suggestions on backplates, wings and harnesses would be most appreciated. Weight pockets also, but wings especially.

One big question is, do I need a chest strap, or should I avoid a chest strap and go with a continous piece of webbing type of setup? What I'm worried about is the straps wanting to slide off my shoulders constantly.
 
I'll get it out of the way since tons of people will say this if I don't.

TRY BEFORE YOU BUY

Now that I've said that I have to warn you that I've only used one rig since the rental gear I used in open water class so this may not count for much. I use the Hammerhead plate and the Oxycheq Signature 45 wing and continuous webbing with no chest strap. I have never had it slip off my shoulders. I have been using a weight belt but a few club members and several Scubaboard members swear by the XSScuba weight pouches that you can get for $9 online. That is my next purchase. I really like this setup. Great in the water and good price.

Bryan.
 
Henry Morgan:
I'm looking at buying a backplate/wing combo soon. I used to dive a Black Diamond BC, and at the time I bought it, it was an awesome upgrade from the jacket BC's I'd been renting. After some time though, it just wasn't good enough any more. (Not nearly good enough.) Now I'm looking at backplates.

Why wasn't it good enough? What are you trying to do with this change in gear?


Henry Morgan:
I've been to quite a few manufacturer's websites...OMS, Oxycheck, Diverite, DSS, Hammerhead....but I don't know anyone who's actually used this stuff who isn't an LDS employee. Not knocking sales people, but it seems they all want to sell me on the fact that whatever they happen to have in stock at the moment is the best thing going. (Ok, maybe I am knocking sales people. :) Where I live many of them will tell you ANYTHING to get a sale.)

I have nothing to sell you. In terms of an overall system, I put my money on DSS and Halcyon. I like Oxycheq as well. I don't care for Dive Rite's wings. And I know nothing of wings by Hammerhead. I bought a Halcyon system. I would just as easily buy a DSS. Reasons. Quality construction, no BS, ready to go out of the box, designs that actually work well in the water.


Henry Morgan:
Anyway, any suggestions on backplates, wings and harnesses would be most appreciated. Weight pockets also, but wings especially.

Can't give any help on wings until you say what you're doing, and what knid of tanks? Are you diving a single AL80? Double 104s? Makes a HUGE difference. I'd say forgo the weight pockets and get a belt. Just personal preference.


Henry Morgan:
One big question is, do I need a chest strap, or should I avoid a chest strap and go with a continous piece of webbing type of setup? What I'm worried about is the straps wanting to slide off my shoulders constantly.

If you get the Hog harness (1 piece of continuous webbing), and adjust it properly it will NOT come off your shoulders. Not even close. If you get another type of harness, you may indeed need a chest strap. Personally, I'd say get the 1-piece webbing. It works. No BS, no clips, not futzing around.
 
I'll be using a single AL 80 for now. When I eventually get a set of doubles, I'll probably just put together a second BP/Wing combo for those. Thought I had put that in the post somewhere, but I guess not. I'm thinking I'll get a donut type wing, not sure from which manufacturer though. The Halcyon ones look pretty nice, but I've seen posts about defects with the bladders and the power inflators. That's part of what prompted me to post here. I had intended to drive up to High Springs and just go to Extreme Exposure to check out their gear, but I saw a couple of posts on quality control issues at Halcyon, and really I don't know if it's true or just political bs.

The Black Diamond was worlds better than the jackets I'd used as far as stability in the water and buoyancy control, but it would ride up and shift around. I just got to the point where I wanted something more stable, and with a little more versatility. I also absolutely hated the side pockets on it. On the version I had, the flaps just weren't very good at securing things inside, and they were positioned too far back for my taste. (At the time I was using that BC, I had no clue that I could get a pocket to glue onto the leg of my wetsuit.)

One thing I did really like about that BC was that it had dual lower dump valves, which is a feature I haven't seen on any of the wings that I've looked at so far.

I guess what I really want to know is if there's really any difference between gear from the different manufacturers, or do they all perform pretty much the same in the water?
 
Each additional valve is another failure point, with minimal additional benefit. Generally wings have only one lower dump valve because that is all that is needed. Likewise, they only have one upper dump (via the inflator). There is generally no 'pull-the-hose' type dump, but I suppose one can be added if you want. I wouldn't do it because I've never developed the habit, and I've seen them fail and cause problems.
 
Henry Morgan:
I'll be using a single AL 80 for now. When I eventually get a set of doubles, I'll probably just put together a second BP/Wing combo for those. Thought I had put that in the post somewhere, but I guess not. I'm thinking I'll get a donut type wing, not sure from which manufacturer though.

Ok, so you're looking for a 26-35# lift, single, donut wing. That narrows the field coniderably. Takes Dive Rite out of the running, as well as Golem, Agir, and some others. The DSS is new, the Halcyon has been around a long time, the Oxycheq is new.

Henry Morgan:
The Halcyon ones look pretty nice, but I've seen posts about defects with the bladders and the power inflators. That's part of what prompted me to post here. I had intended to drive up to High Springs and just go to Extreme Exposure to check out their gear, but I saw a couple of posts on quality control issues at Halcyon, and really I don't know if it's true or just political bs.

Political BS? No. Halcyon has indeed had issues with their power inflator sticking. Hasn't affected everyone. Mine has been flawless. That said, they have abandoned the stainless steel inflator and gone back to plastic. Sticking issue should be a thing of the past. Going up to EE is still a good idea. Stop by Cave Excursions East, and Salvo while you're there. Get a full lay of the land. Salvo will have the Golem and Agir wings. Cave Excursions will have the DSS and Oxycheq as well as Dive Rite.


Henry Morgan:
One thing I did really like about that BC was that it had dual lower dump valves, which is a feature I haven't seen on any of the wings that I've looked at so far.

You won't see that "feature" either. AS has been mentioned, each valve is a potential failure point. Some BC's I've seen have 4. really you only need 2. Left side by your butt, and the exhaust on the end of the inflator. The idea is that you use your left hand to control all your buoyancy. Inflate, deflate. Easy.


Henry Morgan:
I guess what I really want to know is if there's really any difference between gear from the different manufacturers, or do they all perform pretty much the same in the water?

We really need to make this a FAQ.

Is there a difference? Yes. Do they all perform similarly in the water? Yes.

A few things to watch for:

1. How wide/narrow is the wing. Although this is an issue of drag, the location of the butt dump is important. If you're a larger person with a very narrow wing, the pull dump can be a challenge to get to at times.

2. How long is the corrugated hose? The Halcyon is perfect. The DSS is also good from what I hear. The Dive Rite is too long and really needs to be modified for best effect. The Golem is a bit longer than I would like, but it ok. The Oxy seemed ok when I used it.

3. How many grommet holes are there? More an issue with doubles wings, but multiple grommet holes allow you to adjust trim a bit which is nice.

4. Does the BP come with an STA? You'll get a few arguments, but an STA is really the way to go.

5. Is this a bladder in a bag design or an RF Welded bladder. Both have their merits, but the bladder in a bag design is tougher. My single wing is not like this, but my double wing is.

6. Can I get this with just the basic 5 D-Rings and hog harness. OMS makes this a pain, but the others are fine.

7. How far does the plate sit off my back? Some sit close like the DSS, others sit further away. May cause issues if you want to reach your tank valve. And you DO.

8. Can I get steel or Aluminum, and which do I need? With my steel BP and an AL80, I wear no weight. Keep this in mind.

9. How well finished is the plate? Should be deburred and clean. Most are, some aren't. Does the plate accomodate the normal 2" crotch strap or only the 1" strap?

I'm sure there's stuff I am forgetting, but this is most of the basics. Overall, you're going to like them in the water. Much cleaner than what you've been used to.
 
Lots of good info. I guess the next thing is to go look at and hopefully try out some gear. Thanks for all the input, I'll let you know how it goes.
 
I'll just add two things. One is that, unless you are fanatically fussy, the STA-less system that DSS uses works just fine. My tank is very stable on my back, thank you very much. And I don't even have the newest version of the DSS wing, which seems even better than mine.

The other is that the Halcyon inflator problems do not seem to be gone with the new inflators. My dive buddy has a newer, post-recall Halcyon wing, and his inflator sticks, too.

The DSS system -- BP, wing and harness -- is a good quality rig at a very reasonable price. It's hard to argue with. And you'd get some first-class customer support from the manufacturer . . . Tobin refused to sell one of my close friends a rig until she gave him the data he needed to be sure he was selling her the right size wing.
 
I agree with the DSS recommendation. They make a great product and have superb customer support.

One of my wings is a DSS and I *love* it.
 
I have a DSS single tank rig. steel backplate, 30# wing and single piece harness. I would recommend time and time again. The tank is very stable and the rig is very well though out and comfortable. I also use the 8# weight plates on my rig. I dive cold water and need alot of weight with my drysuit so the weight plates let me dive with a 8# belt which is perfect for me.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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