Breaking news from the whale wars

[Jax]

But I never preach about it, . . .

Might want to take a poll on that, IJS.


Firstly, I thought it was an Australian territory where the whaling santuary is and only four countries have recognised it (all ones who have other claims over Antarctica). Japan has never recognised the claim nor the Ross Dependency claim by New Zealand if that is where whaling occurs also. Why should they? Japan also thinks it contravenes the ICRW too.

Source, please? I cannot substantiate.

You clearly do not know of the cruel and horrible ways in which many forms of meat are obtained for consumption in the West.

And this is clear how? Why would you assume Salty doesn't know of the ways you term cruel and horrible? Your premise is unsound.

 

[Jax]

Why is it wrong? Just because you don't eat whale meat doesn't mean you have the unilateral right to stop others eating whale meat. Not a single person here has dared to claim that taking less than 0.1% of the population of minke whales from the Southern ocean annually is going to endanger or even have any effect on the species.

Source, please?

 

[Geoff_H]

Source, please?

Try reading this thread.

 

[Jax]

Source, please?

Try reading this thread.

Did. I find many so-called "facts", but none with an authoritative source . . most with absolutely nothing to back the statement at all. Simply a statement out of the blue. I see no reason to believe any one of you as you have failed to establish yourselves as having any sort of expertise in the areas mentioned.

 

[Geoff_H]

Did. I find many so-called "facts", but none with an authoritative source . . most with absolutely nothing to back the statement at all. Simply a statement out of the blue. I see no reason to believe any one of you as you have failed to establish yourselves as having any sort of expertise in the areas mentioned.

Maybe you could do this very complicated maths, all by yourself - just like I did.

Take the annual quote for minke whale catch in the Southern Ocean

Divide that by the most recent/accurate/low number you want to choose for the population of minke whales in the Southern Ocean.

Then report back the number and tell us if you think it presents a threat to the survival of the species.

Go.

 

[Jax]

Maybe you could do this very complicated maths, all by yourself - just like I did.

Take the annual quote for minke whale catch in the Southern Ocean Exactly! And whose number should that be? Do we indeed have a world body that monitors and reports these?

Divide that by the most recent/accurate/low number you want to choose for the population of minke whales in the Southern Ocean. What is the authoritative source for this number? The whaling industry, as are the conservationists, are obviously biased.

Then report back the number and tell us if you think it presents a threat to the survival of the species. and here again -- I have neither the marine biology / conservation education nor specific training to report back with anything but a Scientific Wild-A$$ed Guess. . . pardon my language.

Go.

There are Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics. Benjamin Disraeli, et al.

You hit it on the head, Geoff! Very good!

 

[OldNSalty]

If it is to eat them yes. Killing an animal for fun or no reason is not acceptable to me (i.e. hunting for kicks) and so forth. You clearly do not know of the cruel and horrible ways in which many forms of meat are obtained for consumption in the West. All ways to kill an animal are cruel, and I am ok with that because I am a meat eater. Most meat eaters ignore how their own meat is obtained and instead complain about other cultures' methods. It's cool if you want to do that, but you have to be aware of the hypocrisy.

So if you enjoy the taste of a good steak and I enjoy going out once a year and shooting a cow but am against fining I am a hypocrite in your mind? If I eat kosher I can’t be against some sadistic form of taking a life? I mean, I can come up with some very sadistic and painful ways of killing and consuming an animal, I can also come up with some pretty clean and quick ways of doing it.

All ways to kill an animal are cruel

No they aren't. Some are-maybe most, but not all.

 

[Tigerman]

Killing animals most certainly can be done more or less humanely and there is a huge difference between cutting a sharks fin off and leaving it to die slowly and blowing an animals brain apart in one shot. That said, what SEEMS to be most humane just because it looks cleaner isnt neccesarilly..

As for the minke whale being threatened or not, the IUCN does not consider neither the common or the antarctic minke whale endangered at this point and state that the antarctic minke whales is "clearly in the hundreds of thousands". Even if you go for the absolute minimum thats still 100k.

 

[DCBC]

On the contrary my dear DCBC, it was exactly the issue that Mr X. and I were discussing. He asserted the whalers were losing money, which I challenged as being unlikely. Further research by us both has led him to believe the whaling expeditions can be profitable. Do try and keep up with the conversation before jumping in and looking silly.

I have no obligation to keep up with your side discussions.

...Not a single person here has dared to claim that taking less than 0.1% of the population of minke whales from the Southern ocean annually is going to endanger or even have any effect on the species.

According to the International Whaling Commission, they do not have an accurate estimate on the Minke population in the southern hemisphere. It is currently under scientific study (http://www.iwcoffice.org/conservation/estimate.htm). Where do you get your statistics from?

To sanction killing of a species in an area where you do not have an accurate census in my mind is irresponsible. Just saying.

 

[Sas]

I have no obligation to keep up with your discussions.



According to the International Whaling Commission, they do not have an accurate estimate on the Minke population in the southern hemisphere. It is currently under scientific study (Population Estimates). Where do you get your statistics from?

To sanction killing of a species in an area where you do not have an accurate census in my mind is irresponsible. Just saying.

There are a number of places that estimate the population of minke whales that don't have a political agenda such as the IWC. None of the estimates (even the conservative ones) put them as endangered. Some places advocate culling of minke whale species due to the fact they think that the minke whale is damaging fish stocks as well as other whale species recovering actually.

I can post links if you would like (such as the IUCN, from Japan, few other places), but a quick google search will allow you to compare various estimates for yourself. The IUCN for example, says even though there is no exact estimate at this time, the population is clearly in the hundreds of thousands though IUCN suspects a decline (though they do not have a reason for this decline nor do they have proof of a decline). In the last 20 years, Japan has taken only 9000 or so. (Catches under Permit)

Personally I would prefer that Japan leave the tuna alone and more effort be made to stop tuna poaching, but no one seems to give a crap about tuna. They are not interesting like whales though...