Cali surf entries and Laguna Closure Question or thoughts ..

[GrumpyOldGuy]

This is just the begging of restrictions. Look at the map were you can't take game even if you have a license. Next the whole Pacific Ocean.

https://nrm.dfg.ca.gov/FileHandler.ashx?DocumentID=36132&inline=true

What is so special about the small area of 882 west of Point Loma ?

There was a time when you could dive all of theses islands that are now restricted by the Fish and Game (wildlife) BUT WHY !

I used to go out to Cortez Bank and Tanner Bank twice a year, but no more thanks to the fish and game.

I never said anything about fish & game nor taking anything, I stopped spear fishing 30 years ago. Violating fishing regulations never even entered my mind when I posted.

The context was lifeguard enforced restrictions (buddy's & snorkels) and other nanny state type rules the CITY OF LAGUNA BEACH has enacted. The state laws for fish and game are a different game (pun), and playing fast and loose is both unethical and asking for punishment (game wardens are not as mellow is life guards)

I assume you don't seriously think diving without a snorkel or buddy is connected to the restrictions.

 

[lamarpaulski]

Havent been bothered by lifeguards in years at Laguna...the snorkle/buddy thing seems somewhat to have faded. I used to.macho it out with sizeable waves...the diving generally sucks and it is less safe. I see little benefit and much potential loss, certainly if diving with a loved one. So I dont need to stress beach closures.because if its even mediocre I just cancel..but Im not 'invested' in it..live locally and can dive another day.

 

[dead dog]

drbill;7242390]Oh, please. Less than 20% of the So. California coast is in a marine protected area (MPA) and several of these allow take of certain species.

Along the cost it may be 20%, but if you look at the map below which includes the Channel Islands it's way more then 20%.

https://nrm.dfg.ca.gov/FileHandler.ashx?DocumentID=36132&inline=true

This is just another form of government intervention. It will continue to grow, till there will be no place to get lobster other then your local supermarket, and who supplies them ?

Dr. Bill, please explain area of 882 west of Point Loma ? Why is this closed off ?

 

[blinkswiler]

PADI's new standards are the dive partners are to be no more than 2 arms lengths away from each other. Handholding for OW students achieves this very well while reinforcing the stay close issues. As for wimpy OW dive students, I agree. This, however is NOT a navy SEAL team or Army Ranger training program. This is RECREATIONAL diving, aka, for fun. While the standards call for mastery of skills, I would venture a bet that less than 1/2 of the students completing the class possess true mastery. In order to accomplish that through any training program, (PADI, SSI, NAUI...) would take us back to the 6-months intensive training program structure before certification (male under 30 and pushups in full dive gear anyone? and no I can't) with many, many repetitions of the same skill. While that would certainly make the dive parks less full, you can't learn without doing. That is what the OW class is, a license to continue learning and developing skills. My students are taught that only one person is responsible for their safety and no one is permitted to shame another diver into a dive they don't feel comfortable with. OW students just got the training wheels off their bikes. Experience will permit them to grow. And wimpy or not, no one completing an OW class walks (or swims) away without gaining a new respect for water and the ocean and that can't be all bad.

 

[dead dog]

I never said anything about fish & game nor taking anything, I stopped spear fishing 30 years ago. Violating fishing regulations never even entered my mind when I posted.

The context was lifeguard enforced restrictions (buddy's & snorkels) and other nanny state type rules the CITY OF LAGUNA BEACH has enacted. The state laws for fish and game are a different game (pun), and playing fast and loose is both unethical and asking for punishment (game wardens are not as mellow is life guards)

I assume you don't seriously think diving without a snorkel or buddy is connected to the restrictions.

Sorry Grumpy this wasn't meant for you. I was replying to underwater's comment " Many instructors don't seem to know how to teach high surf entry, as evidenced by the circus in the surf zone we see frequently."

 

[MaxBottomtime]

Along the cost it may be 20%, but if you look at the map below which includes the Channel Islands it's way more then 20%.

https://nrm.dfg.ca.gov/FileHandler.ashx?DocumentID=36132&inline=true

This is just another form of government intervention. It will continue to grow, till there will be no place to get lobster other then your local supermarket, and who supplies them ?

Dr. Bill, please explain area of 882 west of Point Loma ? Why is this closed off ?

[h=1]California Cowcod Conservation Areas[/h]

The first stock assessment of cowcod was completed in 1999; the results of which led to cowcod being declared "overfished". Soon after, management measures were taken by both state and federal agencies to curb the catch of cowcod statewide. In the Southern California Bight, access to the shelf has been restricted by implementation of depth-based Cowcod Conservation Areas (CCAs). The CCAs, implemented in 2001 (Section 27.28(d)), prohibits most of the bottom-fishing deeper than approximately 20 fathoms (36 m). The Southern California Bight is the area where cowcod are most abundant, where adult habitat is most common, and where catches are highest.The closed area includes a 4,200 square mile area (Area 1, or CCA West) off the Palos Verdes Peninsula extending southwards about 90 miles and westward another 50 miles. A smaller area, the "43-fathom spot," (Area 2, or CCA East) which lies 40 miles offshore of San Diego and extends northward and offshore to cover 100 square miles was also designated as part of the closure area.
Cowcod are also managed as a no-retention fishery (i.e. take is prohibited) in the commercial and recreational sectors statewide. Catches after 2000 are less than one metric ton per year, indicating that the effort to eliminate cowcod catch has been effective.

 

[dead dog]

PADI's new standards are the dive partners are to be no more than 2 arms lengths away from each other. Handholding for OW students achieves this very well while reinforcing the stay close issues. As for wimpy OW dive students, I agree. This, however is NOT a navy SEAL team or Army Ranger training program. This is RECREATIONAL diving, aka, for fun. While the standards call for mastery of skills, I would venture a bet that less than 1/2 of the students completing the class possess true mastery. In order to accomplish that through any training program, (PADI, SSI, NAUI...) would take us back to the 6-months intensive training program structure before certification (male under 30 and pushups in full dive gear anyone? and no I can't) with many, many repetitions of the same skill. While that would certainly make the dive parks less full, you can't learn without doing. That is what the OW class is, a license to continue learning and developing skills. My students are taught that only one person is responsible for their safety and no one is permitted to shame another diver into a dive they don't feel comfortable with. OW students just got the training wheels off their bikes. Experience will permit them to grow. And wimpy or not, no one completing an OW class walks (or swims) away without gaining a new respect for water and the ocean and that can't be all bad.

Give all the students a Jon line and this will fix the hand holding and they can use it for decom at 10 ft. LOL

 

[scanfield]

This is just another form of government intervention. It will continue to grow, till there will be no place to get lobster other then your local supermarket, and who supplies them ?

This is a much better outcome than hunting them to extinction, to be perfectly frank.

I've never understood the anti-conservationist perspective. The perception that the oceans are an inexhaustible resource has time and again been proven tragically wrong. I've worked closely with fishermen who make their living harvesting from the ocean, and they understand better than anyone else that these limits and restrictions are absolutely necessary (though we may butt heads with respect to the nature and magnitude of said limits). The people who do not embrace this philosophy are, more often than not, an ecologically and scientifically illiterate minority. And I'm grateful for that.

 

[dead dog]

No one has answered my question " https://nrm.dfg.ca.gov/FileHandler.a...32&inline=true

What is so special about the small area of 882 west of Point Loma ? "

I'm sure Dr. Bill has or can get the answer for me and the rest of the SoCal divers. Look at the map and explain.

 

[scanfield]

No one has answered my question " https://nrm.dfg.ca.gov/FileHandler.a...32&inline=true

What is so special about the small area of 882 west of Point Loma ? "

I'm sure Dr. Bill has or can get the answer for me and the rest of the SoCal divers. Look at the map and explain.

You don't have to look at the map to come up with a good explanation. A basic understanding of the ecological and demographic principles underlying marine reserves will at the very least hint at an answer.

In short, a study in 1999 found that that particular area has features which make it ideal habitat for cowcod (and related demersal fishes), meaning it has among the greatest potential to not only benefit from protection, but also substantial potential for spill-over into neighboring areas/habitat.

Here's the citation:

Butler, J. L., L. D. Jacobson and J.T. Barnes. 1999. Stock assessment of cowcod rockfish. In:
Pacific Fishery Management Council. 1999. Appendix: Status of the Pacific Coast Groundfish
Fishery through 1999 and recommended biological catches for 2000: Stock assessment and
fishery evaluation. Pacific Fishery Management Council, 2130 SW Fifth Avenue, Suite 224,
Portland, Oregon,
97201.

Here's some additional reading from a stock assessment in 2005:

http://www.pcouncil.org/wp-content/uploads/Cowcod_Assessment_May25th.pdf

Nobody is hiding this information. It's an extremely transparent process. But the fact that you didn't bother to seek out this information tells me that you probably weren't actually interested in an answer.