Can I dive without an octo?

[Boarderguy]

 

[MarkA]

The only "buddy breathing" in PADI that is within standards is two divers sharing one first stage that has two 2nd stages on it...one of which could be an AIR2. Buddy breathing (the original meaning) sharing one 2nd stage, breathing alternately from it, became optional in the PAID OW training in 1994, and was removed entirely in 2009.

Right. Now everyone survives.

From what I remember. The success rate for both donor and receiver was worse with buddy breathing than when using an octopus. It must have been significant for organisations (not just PADI) to eliminate buddy breathing from training.

 

[rx7diver]

As an aside, I was in fact taught buddy breathing as part of my PADI OW in 2019. ...

Kudos to you (and your instructor). I regard buddy breathing as an important skill--even if everyone is wearing a "safe second." Buddy breathing provides you an option that you just might need to deploy someday.

When I introduced my then young daughters to scuba a dozen or so years ago, one of their first lessons was buddy breathing (using my SP Mk 10 and D400 or G250). When, a couple of summers later, my girls wanted to "try" my "new" U.S. Divers DA Aqua Master double-hose regulator, one of their first lessons with it was buddy breathing, too. No problem.

These days I "always" dive with a "safe second--even if I am diving with divers who know how to buddy breathe, even if I am solo diving (when other divers are nearby)--because I might need to share air with a random someone who does not know how to buddy breathe. (A couple of months ago I repurposed one of my SP Balanced Adjustable 2nd stages as a "safe second" for my double-hose regulator.)

rx7diver

 

[jborg]

Only having done it the once, I'm skeptical. It's conceivable that it would work as we trained -- my training buddy being my wife, it's plausible that even in a state of near panic I'd consider it roughly as important that she gets to breathe as that I do, and vice versa. With a random wild-eyed instabuddy who may or may not want to give the regulator back after two breaths, while ascending, managing buoyancy and not holding my breath... I'm not so sure. It would certainly take much more training to seem like a good idea.

 

[DAJ]

That was one of the fun parts of dive class back then, trying to pick a buddy for that drill that appeared to have better than average oral hygiene. I would argue that the skill not only went away with the common use of secondaries, growing medical concerns would also be an issue. Can you imagine the backlash you would receive for asking a student today to swim over to their buddy and take that buddies primary regulator from that persons mouth and placing it in their own. You would probably be required to show all you immunization records, including your covid series, and probably a current dental or medical exam to prove your mouth is clean and free from issues.

 

[bradlw]

and that brings me to the Hogarthian long hose configuration that I became a fan of when going through my technical diver training. I still think it's a superior set-up...except the germaphobe in me cringes......

 

[rx7diver]

Only having done it the once, I'm skeptical. It's conceivable that it would work as we trained ...

Well, we all "lived" buddy breathing, early and often, at random times, with sudden "currents" and other stuff happening, for about a dozen weeks during my training. My daughter's training last spring semester was similar.

As with many skills, you need to be well practiced for the skill to "take."

My daughter and I did our first real dive together this past summer in a local quarry. (I was diving my double-hose reg and testing my new VDH Argonaut singles wing, and she wanted to join.) At one point during our first dive I signaled to her, suddenly: "Out of air, need to buddy breathe NOW!" She didn't miss a beat! Absolutely no drama.

rx7diver

 

[Angelo Farina]

When I began diving, back in prehistoric times, I was taught how to buddy breathe. No one had octos. Somehow, we lived through it all.

I had a bad experience in 1978, requiring me to buddy breath from the reg of my girlfiend (who later became my wife).
Luckily she has always been much calmer than me, she gave me her reg immediately and allowed me to take 3 or 4 breaths, before starting the alternate cycle of one breath each.
We managed to ascend from 30m to the first deco stop at 6m, but it was not easy.
A week later we did purchased two new regs, to be mounted on the second post of our Aralu twin tanks.
No one was using octos at the time, (also because it was called Alternate Air Source, not octo) and we also considered them quite unsafe: much better a complete reg on a separate valve.
In fact, I was needing buddy breathing because the main valve was closed rattling against the ceiling of a tunnel.
A situation where an octo had been of no use.
So yes, you can well dive without an octo: just get a second complete reg, and install it on the second valve of your tank, as I and my wife always did after that bad episode in 1978.

 

[NYCrecdiver]

When I did my CMAS in the mid 90's nobody had an octo. We learned buddy breathing. When we saw divers with an octo we knew they were PADI.

 

[John C. Ratliff]

Everyone here seems to have forgotten the reason octopus and safe second regulators were developed; it wasn’t for sport diving, but rather for technical diving in an overhead environment (under ice, cave diving, wreck diving, or decompression diving when a diver could not just surface). I dove from 1959 to 1975 without an octopus, even in the U.S. Air Force.

It wasn’t until I dove the Warm Mineral Springs Underwater Archaeological Research Project in Florida under both Sonny Cockrell and Larry Murphy that I was required to have an octopus. I dove a MR-12 with an Sportsways octopus. That was in 1975, and I was already a NAUI Instructor (#2710).

One of the responses in page 1 stated that the only alternative to an octopus was buddy breathing, but the other alternative was simply to surface. It is only in technical diving environments that the octopus is really needed.

GreggS: “…Okay, what if during your dive your buddy should not be paying attention to his gauges and runs out of air? Now his octo is useless to both of you. Your only choice is to buddy breathe. It appears you are just beginning in diving. Do you think you would have the composure and ability to pass a secondary between the 2 of you while ascending without one or both of you holding your breath and suffering a barotrauma?…

I continue to dive sometimes “vintage” with a double hose regulator and a J-valve on my tank, but in rivers and shallow (max 22 feet deep). I have several octopus setups, and at times do dive on double-post twin sets. One of those is a long hose setup with the original Calypso regulator on the long hose, and the second generation Calypso second stage on the short hose, with a neck strap.

In 1976, I was diving on a clam bed survey research project for the Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife (ODFW) under Tom Gaumer, head biologist. We were dredging a 3 square foot circle to get every single clam out of that area, and count it. Well, I had dove twice that day, and on the third dive I was taking photos of the operation when I ran out-of-air (OOA). So I simply went over to one of the other researchers and buddy breathed a few breaths, back off and took a few more photos, then came back to one of the other researchers (three down there, as I remember), took some more breaths, backed off and took some more photos. I repeated this until I ran out of film, and then did a controlled swimming ascent from about 30 feet to the boat overhead.

SeaRat