Cave certs explained....
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Krafcheck
Contributor
Questions about the apprentice stage:
Is there a minimum number of dives to make after the class to go to full cave?
Say you want to stop at apprentice level does that mean after a year you can no longer technically do the max depth of 130 and the limited deco stop? Or is intro and apprentice the same thing its just the apprentice has doubles so they are allowed to dive deeper and longer?
Is there a minimum number of dives to make after the class to go to full cave?
Say you want to stop at apprentice level does that mean after a year you can no longer technically do the max depth of 130 and the limited deco stop? Or is intro and apprentice the same thing its just the apprentice has doubles so they are allowed to dive deeper and longer?
OP
ucfdiver
Contributor
What's the point to limiting how much gas a diver carries in? Steel 71's doubled up aren't allowed, but an overfilled 130cu ft tank is? Stupid rule IMO. I do respect the fact that they're willing to lose business to do what they feel is safe, but I think this one needs to be revisited.
They're not the same thing. Apprentice is closer to full cave. No one's going to stop you from making a full cave dive with doubles in any system that I know of except Ginnie. It's your body, your life, and ultimately you're responsibility to take steps to ensure your own safety.
jimdiverman
Contributor
You plan your dives based on your amount of available gas no matter what that is, whether that is singles or doubles, it's still 1/3s or less (accounting for gas matching with your buddies) and then turn (or 1/6s on doubles depending on your training level). Do you mean overfilling an LP108? I don't think overfilling an E8-130 is much of a problem in cave country.
ianr33
Contributor
I think you are missing the point here.
Basically a big single is O.K but small doubles are not,even though they contain the same amount of gas .
Even though the doubles have more redundancy they are not allowed as they are considered "too dangerous"
This has never made any sense to me.
Actually I sense a business opportunity here. Maybe I need to start making single 260's aimed at the intro cave diver market ?
jimdiverman
Contributor
I think it stems from not wanting cavern and intro cave divers making deep penetrations into the cave because they had all that gas. I believe that is what was discussed when this came up during training.
Personally, I didn't spend much time at intro, and there is no apprentice level in PSAI, so I went from cavern to full cave, and now I don't have to worry about it. But I started out using twin 108s in cavern and then I used twin 130s for intro to full cave. I did my twin set training as part of my cavern dives. There was some pool work on top of the actual dives, and it took a little longer because there were more dives, but it was worth it to have the doubles training with my cave training.
If a diver has the training, and is capable, I don't have a problem with someone diving in doubles. But I don't make the rules.
Certaintly lots of opinions.
I think I'll bow to the professionals here and just go dive
(Ginnie today and manatee tomorrow. Peacock will open in about a month)
Once you guys settle this , let me know the answers .
Jean
I think I'll bow to the professionals here and just go dive
(Ginnie today and manatee tomorrow. Peacock will open in about a month)
Once you guys settle this , let me know the answers .
Jean
cinder4320
Contributor
As I understood from my training, actual penetration isn't limited. The limiting factor based strictly on training standards would have been the T not the penetration distance. IANTD Intro does not allow any navigation decisions so for instance if a cave had a T at 200' in, the max. penetration allowed would be 200' at the intro level. Its questionable if they could reach 1500' penetration on 1/6ths but it wouldn't be specifically prohibited.
Miranda
jimdiverman
Contributor
Certaintly lots of opinions.
I think I'll bow to the professionals here and just go dive
(Ginnie today and manatee tomorrow. Peacock will open in about a month)
Once you guys settle this , let me know the answers .
Jean
Jean,
Glad to hear about Peacock. Sounds like the vis might still suck for a little while longer though?
I am staying at Dive Outpost next weekend. I am sure I will see you at Megadive. I hope the weather holds up for us.
Let's clarify this (again!). Ginnie will allow you to do dives in doubles at Intro level if your instructor signs off on that. If your agency does specify that you have been certified on doubles at any level, you can dive doubles at Ginnie. If your agency did not specify that, Ginnie will not allow you. Yes it is your body, your life and such, but if you die doing something beyond your agency's limits and the Ginnie operation allowed you to do that, they are also liable.
The point to limiting divers on gas is to limit penetration. What would you suggest in terms of this needing to be revisited?
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