Deco Gases

[boomx5]

Then I believe it is called hear-say. Shouldn't you instead be quoting Bill Hamilton and Bruce Weinke and citating their written references?

It's obvious you have an axe to grind with George and I don't appreciate the sarcasm. I just want to know if you are calling George and Jarrod a couple of liars? I did hear them say they worked with Bill Hamilton and Bruce Weinke, so maybe the burdon of proof is on you to discredit their statements. I did however PM Bruce to see if he could weigh in here.

 

[triton94949]

It's obvious you have an axe to grind with George and I don't appreciate the sarcasm. I just want to know if you are calling George and Jarrod a couple of liars? I did hear them say they worked with Bill Hamilton and Bruce Weinke, so maybe the burdon of proof is on you to discredit their statements. I did however PM Bruce to see if he could weigh in here.

I have tremendous respect for JJ. He is after all a NAUI instructor. And the author of a couple of books on scuba as well.

And Irvine is a stockbroker. I am sure he is good at that.

 

[HolgerS]

@ Triton

You seem to be not open for arguments, not open for listening, reading, learning. What a pity!

I gave you Bruce Wienke as major source concerning theory and George as major source of real dives. These are the very best references. Theory by a scientist, real dives by a real diver. What is your problem?

My posting is an answer to the thread. Take it as input, think about it and use it in that way whatever outcome your thoughts might be. But don´t ask about academic references - that will not tell you anything here. By the way, I am a Ph.d. That should help you to weigh my personal opion

Relax
Holger

 

[RTodd]

What I have not seen is a major decompression algorithm programmer coming up with a program that gives you less or even the same deco time when you use TMX 50/XX in place of EAN50. All that I have seen is longer deco time requirements with the TMX 50/XX.

And I have read Dr. Weinke's books and deco manuals. Yes they are revolutionary. No they are not mainstream. Yes they are interesting. But some of the concepts are self defeating. Such as planning your second dive to be 30 ft shallower than the first.

If you want to wait a few decades for the mainstream deco programs to change, feel free to use what is out there now. Putting so much faith in purely theoretical models when there is better info out there by the guys on the sharp end always baffles me. Hamilton and Weinke both provided tables for WKPP amateur saturation dives. Adding HE to deco gases produced a real world benefit in those dives - faster and cleaner deco. And, it works for less agressive dives as well.

 

[jonnythan]

triton, is your deco software the absolute last word on decompression and not open to revision? I'm pretty sure that your software is not the only way to decompress.

 

[Rick Murchison]

Alright, listen up!
Y'all are walkin' right on the edge of civility here. Throttle back and be nice to one another.
Love,
Uncle Ricky

 

[wedivebc]

triton, is your deco software the absolute last word on decompression and not open to revision? I'm pretty sure that your software is not the only way to decompress.

My deco software IS the last word for me. That means I don't try to second guess the outcome or tweak the numbers I just follow the plan.
I think triton is just trying to present the view that George Irvine is not the last word on deco either although many seem to think he is. He has emperically trialed Bill Hamiltons tables but in a very limited environment. Depth, temperature, physical fitness, hyrdation are all factors to when determining deco profiles. It takes lots of real divers in lots of different environments to validate a deco algorithm or table.

 

[triton94949]

Alright, listen up!
Y'all are walkin' right on the edge of civility here. Throttle back and be nice to one another.
Love,
Uncle Ricky

Thanks Rick. I was hoping you would call this meeting back to order. Best regards.

 

[jonnythan]

My deco software IS the last word for me. That means I don't try to second guess the outcome or tweak the numbers I just follow the plan.
I think triton is just trying to present the view that George Irvine is not the last word on deco either although many seem to think he is. He has emperically trialed Bill Hamiltons tables but in a very limited environment. Depth, temperature, physical fitness, hyrdation are all factors to when determining deco profiles. It takes lots of real divers in lots of different environments to validate a deco algorithm or table.

You're right, but I just want to make the point that just because the deco software you use tells you something, that doesn't simply end the discussion for everyone and make everyone else wrong.

 

[triton94949]

@ Triton

You seem to be not open for arguments, not open for listening, reading, learning. What a pity!

I gave you Bruce Wienke as major source concerning theory and George as major source of real dives. These are the very best references. Theory by a scientist, real dives by a real diver. What is your problem?

My posting is an answer to the thread. Take it as input, think about it and use it in that way whatever outcome your thoughts might be. But don´t ask about academic references - that will not tell you anything here. By the way, I am a Ph.d. That should help you to weigh my personal opion

Relax
Holger

Holger, I was actually wanting to see how the difference between TMX 50/XX and EAN50 shows up on your deco software. I am guessing that it gives you longer deco time for the TMX 50/XX version. And therefore since you then must deco longer, you would therefore feel better.

Can you run both dive plans on the deco software that you use for technical deco diving, and print them both here, so that I can see it?