Deco with too less air, options from the book

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Please cut & paste my direct posted statement where you say I refused to take responsibility, blame someone else, or did not bother to learn Ratio Deco formally in a class/seminar setting . . . otherwise you will preface your post as "In My Opinion" each and everytime you post something contrary to what was objectively reported. . .

Bismark and all other detractors -- I really don't care about your mistaken premise & conclusions. When they start becoming more frequent and off-base however, then I start thinking about libelous intent on your part.

[MODs take note and Consider that a Warning . . .]

Sincerely,
"KR"

I don't know you from a hole in the ground but you should really read what I wrote. I didn't say you didn't take responsibility or blame someone else. In fact the only thing I did say about you was that you didn't learn RD. At least not the RD that I know, understand and use where appropriate. I think my opinion has been supported by many others as I have read your posts in DM, etc. about your experiences.

As far as the rest of it.........
 
I'm not refusing to take responsibility for my actions. I didn't bring up KR and I said that he would have the same problems even if he hadn't heard of RD. I mentioned KR only because a poster said that RD was being discussed so that there was no misinformation, so that people like KR wouldn't exist (giving RD a bad name). In the early days every time someone asked a GUE question they were told go take a class. It can't be explained on the internet. Now it's different I guess.

You're making the classic mistake made on here so often. You read any post that isn't in total agreement with what you "believe" and you read it in the worse possible light. The conclusions you have drawn regarding my post are ridiculous.

You don't know me and you have no idea what I believe.

The rest of your comments are just silly.
 


A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

Can you ALL continue this discussion with out personal attacks


Thank you
 
You are right computers will not do this either and I never advocated using one. I cut tables sometimes up to five for one dive. The longest BT would be the limit of my gas supply with whatever safety margin I feel that dive needs.

(That's what I assumed)

Apples and oranges. One is done pre-dive, the other during the dive.
 
In the early to mid 70's I made my living doing 4-6 dives/day, 300+ days/yr. John's comment "The more diving you do, the more efficient your body's inert gas loading and unloading becomes" rang true to me as that seemed to be my experience. Its nice to see the "empirical" evidence backed up by academic research. I firmly believe that acclimatization, augmented by our very conservative decomp routine (we were doing 15' "safety stops" on every No Decomp dive before there was such a term), created a cushion for us on those rare occasions when we were forced to shorten a stop.

And while we're discussing the comparative value of empirical observation versus theoretical research, in over three decades of diving and thousands of decompression dives, the one time I took a DCS hit and won a trip to the chamber was when I relied solely on my dive computer, setting aside rules based on empirical evidence.
 
Libelous intent - HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

That is literally the funniest thing I've ever read on Scubaboard. I'd love to see you actually find an attorney that would take the case of the "He hurt my feelings on the internet!" Perhaps you could get Judge Judy to adjudicate over the proceedings.

Signed,
Litterally laughing out loud
 
Hi J valve,

I was interested in acclimatization to decompression after the post by John Chatterton earlier in this thread also, I had not heard of the phenomenon. See the thread under Marine Science and Physiology-Ask Dr Deco.

Good diving, Craig
 
Hi J valve,

I was interested in acclimatization to decompression after the post by John Chatterton earlier in this thread also, I had not heard of the phenomenon. See the thread under Marine Science and Physiology-Ask Dr Deco.

Good diving, Craig

It does make sense though doesn't it (whether it's true or not)? The body in general does adapt to change. That's the beauty of the human body isn't it.?

We ski and our leg muscles get stronger. Over the summer when those same muscles aren't needed they lose their strength. Next winter...we get them back again. It only makes sense that if you dive enough that through one mechanism or another your body adapts to the various changes going on to one degree or another.
 
I'm not refusing to take responsibility for my actions. I didn't bring up KR and I said that he would have the same problems even if he hadn't heard of RD. I mentioned KR only because a poster said that RD was being discussed so that there was no misinformation, so that people like KR wouldn't exist (giving RD a bad name). In the early days every time someone asked a GUE question they were told go take a class. It can't be explained on the internet. Now it's different I guess.
Gray ... since you quoted me in your previous reply and are now making statements referring to that quote, I'm going to ask you to consider what I said ...

NWGratefulDiver:
Because when people misunderstand it and get hurt, it often gets blamed on the method, rather than the misuse of the method. The post subsequent to yours is an excellent example of someone who is using RD for dives it was never intended to accommodate, and making decisions based on erroneous assumptions about what RD is all about. As a result he got bent.
Nowhere in there did I say anything about "so that people like KR wouldn't exist" ... nor was it implied. You are employing the very tactic you accused Bismark of using ... and to the same result.

You're making the classic mistake made on here so often. You read any post that isn't in total agreement with what you "believe" and you read it in the worse possible light. The conclusions you have drawn regarding my post are ridiculous.

So let me try again ... because there was nothing nefarious or judgmental in what I posted.

One should not attempt to learn decompression on the Internet ... regardless of method used. It's entirely too subjective and situational. Sure, you can learn the theory and history by reading a book ... or (if you trust the information) by what someone posts in a forum ... but all you're getting is the tools. It is the APPLICATION of those tools that matters. And in that respect, ALL decompression theories are more an art than a science ... and no matter which one you choose, what you're really doing is making a choice of which method you think is less likely to hurt you.

I used Kevrumbo as an example of someone who applied RD to a dive it was never intended for ... and as a result he got bent. That is NOT a judgment on KR as a diver. I don't know the guy, have never dived with him, and although I was involved in a discussion on another board where people were very hard on him, I was NOT one of those people. In fact, on more than one occasion he admitted I had made good points and asked reasonable questions about the reasons why he decided to do the dive as he did.

So no ... I don't wish that people like KR didn't exist ... I wish he would apply the tools he's attempting to use in his diving in the way they were intended, so that he doesn't hurt himself again.

Furthermore, on this and other boards I've seen people make broad comments about how using RD will cause you to get bent. I've dived with a couple divers who made the same comment ... when in fact it turns out they knew nothing about RD except what they'd been told by someone else who didn't understand it.

Misinformation CAN be dangerous ... and no matter HOW you attempt to explain RD on the Internet, the risk of misinformation is very high. That's why I think people shouldn't try learning it here. But that's also why I think it's important to correct someone who says something that you clearly know is mistaken or misleading ... because someone else reading the thread may decide to take it as factual. And that path leads to injury ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
Gray ... since you quoted me in your previous reply and are now making statements referring to that quote, I'm going to ask you to consider what I said ...


Nowhere in there did I say anything about "so that people like KR wouldn't exist" ... nor was it implied. You are employing the very tactic you accused Bismark of using ... and to the same result.



So let me try again ... because there was nothing nefarious or judgmental in what I posted.

One should not attempt to learn decompression on the Internet ... regardless of method used. It's entirely too subjective and situational. Sure, you can learn the theory and history by reading a book ... or (if you trust the information) by what someone posts in a forum ... but all you're getting is the tools. It is the APPLICATION of those tools that matters. And in that respect, ALL decompression theories are more an art than a science ... and no matter which one you choose, what you're really doing is making a choice of which method you think is less likely to hurt you.

I used Kevrumbo as an example of someone who applied RD to a dive it was never intended for ... and as a result he got bent. That is NOT a judgment on KR as a diver. I don't know the guy, have never dived with him, and although I was involved in a discussion on another board where people were very hard on him, I was NOT one of those people. In fact, on more than one occasion he admitted I had made good points and asked reasonable questions about the reasons why he decided to do the dive as he did.

So no ... I don't wish that people like KR didn't exist ... I wish he would apply the tools he's attempting to use in his diving in the way they were intended, so that he doesn't hurt himself again.

Furthermore, on this and other boards I've seen people make broad comments about how using RD will cause you to get bent. I've dived with a couple divers who made the same comment ... when in fact it turns out they knew nothing about RD except what they'd been told by someone else who didn't understand it.

Misinformation CAN be dangerous ... and no matter HOW you attempt to explain RD on the Internet, the risk of misinformation is very high. That's why I think people shouldn't try learning it here. But that's also why I think it's important to correct someone who says something that you clearly know is mistaken or misleading ... because someone else reading the thread may decide to take it as factual. And that path leads to injury ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Thanks Bob,

You exactly hit the nail on the head and why I used the analogy of "its not the tools fault if it is used incorrectly".

It scares the bejesus out of me when I see what some people post and then others use this as a baseline for their quest for knowledge. I sometimes think that some readers are getting too lacksidasical (did I spell that right....?) about what is really required to conduct some of these dives in terms of the knowledge and skill to keep from getting seriously hurt. True, it is not rocket science but you can't conduct these dives safely just by "staying at a Holiday Inn last night". Some people on this board are very experienced and a 30 min, 150' dive is something they can plan and execute in their sleep, but I think a sanity check is sometimes in order to make sure that newer divers interested in Tech don't think that fact is because the dive is simple or with little consequence. Rather, it is because a lot of work and effort and a gradual learning curve over time have allowed this to happen. I can honestly say that the closest thing I have experienced in my life that mirrors my own GUE technical training from Fundamentals through Tech II was flight training in the military in terms of skill development and breadth of knowlege. Yes, there are numerous short cuts to this technical training process, but you get what you pay for and at the end of the day, your skills and abilities and knowledge end up reflecting the effort you put in to your training. There are also alternate instruction avenues available with a very high standard of training, and I really hope that as technical training becomes more and more popular, divers will understand that there are no shortcuts. Current recreational training models drastically break down at the technical diving level.

Anyways, rant over.

Thanks again for your post.

Guy
 

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