Deep Diving on Air

[NAM001]

Thanks for your post.

By emample you have proven just what i have said. Your position , right or wrong ,alone says to others, the limits put down are unrealistic and as such logically need not be considered valid. I could not have made a better arguement myself. THANK YOU. Whether your info is correct or not Is not the issue.
What matters is that any bow student or grad after reading your position will question not just whether he was taught valid safety limits or not. But the necessity of trainig as a whole. With experience and completing a lot of study, as I am sure you have done, your position may be sound. But in the words of the Op if i remember them.... He is a relativily new diver and did the deep air dive , because he trusted the guy that took him down.

BTW I think I in theory agree with your position as you have stated it so long as possiblility of malfunctions and the like are exempted from the equation. I have to face the fact that math says 1.6 is in the neighborhood of 225' but there are more factors to consider other than ppo2 alone. Had there been a regulator failure at that depth we would be reading about this in the A&I section. The meat of your point is that it has been frequently done WITHOUT INCIDENT. Like DUI i is most often done with out incident.

Once again thank you for proving my point.

Kws you keep flappin your jaw like mother hen, none of what your posting means nothing.

200' dives can easily be accomplished and are everyday, they are easy to do, call it a bounce, a little bottom time adds a little deco and that is all it is. If you want to put it in all the mumbo jumbo you been writing, then fine you dive a little deeper till you reach 200'. as you go deeper each dive you see how you feel, see how much air you use, see how long it takes, at the same time you follow the navy tables like every one has for decades.

Many older training books had navy tables to past 300' a few years later they put them to 240' then 190' and that was for a long time. Peter ward wrote the first great dive guide I have seen for puget sound in the cold low vis he had the tables to 190' in his book. This was 1974 and the book was for a cause, save the orca's.

Today the dive instruction wants you to be scared to make these dives without training for it when all you actually need is dive experience period.

Physics of deep diving is easily found on the net the 1.6 ta 1.4 is a guide and so many people can pass these to where they find out 200' will not kill me. narcosis can kill me if tolerance can not be achieved. With a few other things to study and all the divers who do these dives, the dive successfully is done and some accidents occur just like tech diving, rebreather diving, boat diving, during dive class, people die diving all the time for so many reasons.

200' dives are very common and always will be done everyday period.

 

[boulderjohn]

But in the words of the Op if i remember them.... He is a relativily new diver and did the deep air dive , because he trusted the guy that took him down.

BTW I think I in theory agree with your position as you have stated it so long as possiblility of malfunctions and the like are exempted from the equation. I have to face the fact that math says 1.6 is in the neighborhood of 225' but there are more factors to consider other than ppo2 alone. Had there been a regulator failure at that depth we would be reading about this in the A&I section. The meat of your point is that it has been frequently done WITHOUT INCIDENT. Like DUI i is most often done with out incident.

KWS, your post indicates that you may be unaware of the large number of posts and entire threads promoting this kind of diving VDGM has made in the past months. It all started (unless I missed an earlier crusade) when the owner of a dive shop in Cozumel, one of her DMs, and a friend made a deep air bounce dive, as they had apparently done many times before without incident. In this case, though, the dive shop owner got narced and continued down past their planned maximum depth until stopped by the DM at a greater depth. They ran out of gas on ascent because of that and had to do a three person buddy breathing ascent with no stops. The dive shop owner died of DCS after extensive chamber treatments. I don't know if the DM is able to walk yet, but he will certainly never dive again. The friend, who did not go to the deepest extent of the dive, is apparently OK.

VDGM defended the dive plan, and he has been promoting such diving with great enthusiasm for some time. I was about to write that he seems to believe luck will last forever, but I have also heard that he once posted that he hopes to die on such a dive. I have not seen that post, though. Perhaps he will clarify that here.

 

[NAM001]

hey boulder

i just looked at the OP and i was mistaken about him saying he was a new diver. I perhaps read that into it based on the question. I was in error.
I knew of the incident but was not respionding in regards to the incident only the practice of it and perhaps why those who do it , do it. It is interesting that i said if all did not go well we woeuld be reading in the A&I. Human nature does not thrive in the successes as much as the failures. I guess that is why demolition derby's were so popular. I by the way usually try not to dwell on specific cases in general discussion because statistically they do not represent the the norm. Perhaps the new craze can become going to 200 on a al50 and then a al40 pony bottle. I dont know. I do know that from reading a lot of the bow threads that the grads have posession of the knowledge but do not have a working profiecency of the skills. Things like this are not simply a pushing of the limits, it goes far beyond. I recently did a nitrox32 dive to 135. If i published that i knw tht the do it wright gods would cloud the sky and raign havic for exceeding the max depth by the very few feet for the minute i was there. The 1.6 ppo2 groupe would then chime in and say t was safe adn it would go on and on. Although i believe those who do it have the right to do what they want, I also believe one must temper themselves. I know i would not do a deep cave dive with no training based solely on teh word of someone i just met that it is a cake walk.

 

[VooDooGasMan]

Actually boulder cozumel thread was not when I came in to play in cozumel they were doing deepest dive on air and lost. I made it clear on the spearfihing thread that there are accidents and there were many divers that do this and it brought out so many people and dive ops that do the diving and the tech divers that dive air. All I did is open up the picture that it is done. Kws missed it and is going off this thread which is the last spin off thread of all the ones I started and and the first one. although there is good info in this if you read it all.

I would rather die in the water at deep depths so my body will be there forever. I have no family so it makes an easy funeral and everything goes to two people, with bill pay I can be gone for years before anyone will know I'm gone. Know one has been to my house in over two years. My life is easy I get up and on nice days I go diving.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I think all the deep diving threads started with the Louisiana boneheads who went to 225 on partially-filled AL80's after being in a boat fishing and drinking all day. One fellow never came back ... his friends last saw him sinking out of sight, and came on SB to eulogize and talk about what a great diver he was ... casually mentioning that his doctor had advised him not to dive because of a sinus problem.

Classic case of "Hey y'all, hold my beer and watch this" ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Hank49]

I think all the deep diving threads started with the Louisiana boneheads who went to 225 on partially-filled AL80's after being in a boat fishing and drinking all day. One fellow never came back ... his friends last saw him sinking out of sight, and came on SB to eulogize and talk about what a great diver he was ... casually mentioning that his doctor had advised him not to dive because of a sinus problem.

Classic case of "Hey y'all, hold my beer and watch this" ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

First off, I think we should show a little more respect for the dead.
Second, if this is the case I read about on Spearboard, those guys (the Hell Divers) do a lot of bounce diving for deep fish on the oil rigs. They're not inexperienced and they don't drink before diving. One has stated that he does drink a Guiness and take an aspirin to help prevent DCS even though he is doing all his deco stops according to his computer. They did lose a buddy and good friend of theirs. I don't recall reading that they saw him sinking out of sight. They did lose him in bad vis and never found his body as I recall.

My apologies if this ISN'T the same case. Yes, diving with a half full tank, drunk after being fishing in the sun all day is not wise.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

First off, I think we should show a little more respect for the dead.
Second, if this is the case I read about on Spearboard, those guys (the Hell Divers) do a lot of bounce diving for deep fish on the oil rigs. They're not inexperienced and they don't drink before diving. One has stated that he does drink a Guiness and take an aspirin to help prevent DCS even though he is doing all his deco stops according to his computer. They did lose a buddy and good friend of theirs. I don't recall reading that they saw him sinking out of sight. They did lose him in bad vis and never found his body as I recall.

My apologies if this ISN'T the same case. Yes, diving with a half full tank, drunk after being fishing in the sun all day is not wise.

I think we're thinking of the same incident .. but it wasn't bad vis ... it was dusk, and they didn't take a light. As for respect ... that's a two-way street, and his friends didn't show much to anybody who had expressed some concerns about the advisability of this dive ... in fact, they were downright nasty, which is why the thread got deleted.

They can do all the deep bounce diving they want ... it's their skin on the line. But Mother Nature has her own way of cleansing the gene pool.

Deep bounce diving is one thing ... doing it on a partial tank, after drinking, and against the doctor's advice that you shouldn't even be diving is something else altogether. That wasn't an accident ... it was the inevitable consequence of believing in his own invincibility ... and I don't respect that.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[NAM001]

boulder

i remember the post regarding dying at depth from some time back, and my thoughts drifted to a joke of a man that when asked about post 9-11 flying said he doesnt worry about it, when its your time,,, its your time. the second man thought that he would not fly again because if it was the first man's his time he did not want to be seated there with him. hopefully when he makes his last airless accent and blacks out at 100' he will be met by 72 mermaids and taken to his final lds.

VDGM defended the dive plan, and he has been promoting such diving with great enthusiasm for some time. I was about to write that he seems to believe luck will last forever, but I have also heard that he once posted that he hopes to die on such a dive. I have not seen that post, though. Perhaps he will clarify that here.

 

[boulderjohn]

I think all the deep diving threads started with the Louisiana boneheads who went to 225 on partially-filled AL80's after being in a boat fishing and drinking all day. One fellow never came back ... his friends last saw him sinking out of sight, and came on SB to eulogize and talk about what a great diver he was ... casually mentioning that his doctor had advised him not to dive because of a sinus problem.

Classic case of "Hey y'all, hold my beer and watch this" ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

That happened immediately after the Cozumel incident, so it is hard to keep them apart. The Cozumel incident was mentioned in the Louisiana thread, which has since been removed because of all the acrimony from the people who jumped in to say that the diver's death was just something that happens in scuba and not a consequence of the specific decisions in this case.

 

[VooDooGasMan]

So kws did read these post before, and now everyone is up to date, NWG still on the gene pool of deep divers are gonna die.

look at all the divers that died and you will see for every 100 divers that died from bad dive instruction to 1 deep diver.

Now to argue that deep air is unsafe is not an argument to anyone that has dove deep air. Once you dive 200' on air you realize how easy this is and now when your on your vacation dives if there is a dive to 180' you are confident as hell to make the dive.

Now like hank knows and so does millions of other divers you can Deep air bounce dive past 200' while spearfishing several times in a day.

I pushed the Deep air to see how many SB members spoke up of there deep air knowledge, there were enough for me to say that they are here on SB but do not want to argue with divers that can not pass the fear that they whine that it is dangerous.

I Deep Air Bounce Dive all the time so in 10,000 Deep Air Dives in my life so far why am I still alive. HELLO cause it is VERY EASY DIVING. I will have Another 10,000 deep air dives in the next 30 years.

All that is opposed to Deep Air has never pass the fear of it, and they are not a safe dive buddy cause of it. I am certain many deaths are from divers who physic out when they go a little Deep from what OWSI feed to there students that its to DANGEROUS and its an out right lie or I would have died so many years ago.

The Thrill of Deep wrecks (250'+) is where the trimix is the most useful, and these dives are long and take time to prep and the cost, then the Rebreather, the Dual Rebreather and now your at 1000'.

So the majority of divers will always Dive Deep Air to 200' cause it has been done over a million times safely.