Deep-stops vs shallow-stops: an interesting read.

[inquis]

@rob.mwpropane - I've found this one for multi-level/repetitive.

Diveplanner Tec & Rec - Apps on Google Play

Plan your technical and recreational dives in seconds !

play.google.com

For single, squarish profiles, I use TechDeco. Typically I'm only doing one deco dive per day, so it works well for my purposes.

techdeco - Android Apps on Google Play

Enjoy millions of the latest Android apps, games, music, movies, TV, books, magazines & more. Anytime, anywhere, across your devices.

play.google.com

If you've already bought MD, though, it's the defacto standard. I was just never a fan of RH's "communication style" when I read all the old threads I could find on the topic. It's not a surprise he's banned. Like some others, I felt like voting with my wallet.

 

[boulderjohn]

What did he do that is so terrible, other than advocating a model you don't like?

Don't know, just murmurs on here. Idc.. I bought it and use it. I like it a lot, but I'm not opposed to trying something new.

Remember that Ross was banned from every forum I know that had those debates, so the decisions were made by a variety of people in a variety of locations. I was intimately involved in the situation at ScubaBoard because I was on staff then, but I won't give too many details. I will simply outline the issues briefly, issues that would be obvious if you read the threads.

Ross did not simply advocate his position. His primary mode of argument was personal attack. He frequently accused Mitchell and David Doolette of faking experimental results, using words like "fake" and "phony" frequently. These are, of course, violations of the ToS, and he should have been at least thread banned early on. I had the unusual task as a moderator of staying out of the thread and speaking directly to him via Direct Messaging in order to get him to understand the rules on what he could and couldn't say. For example, I told him he couldn't accuse Mitchell and Doolette of fraud without giving specific examples of that fraud, which he never did. We thought the thread was providing valuable information to divers, and since Ross was pretty much the only person on his side of the argument, we wanted to keep him in the game long enough to keep the information flowing. Eventually it became too much.

 

[tridacna]

Remember that Ross was banned from every forum I know that had those debates, so the decisions were made by a variety of people in a variety of locations. I was intimately involved in the situation at ScubaBoard because I was on staff then, but I won't give too many details. I will simply outline the issues briefly, issues that would be obvious if you read the threads.

Ross did not simply advocate his position. His primary mode of argument was personal attack. He frequently accused Mitchell and David Doolette of faking experimental results, using words like "fake" and "phony" frequently. These are, of course, violations of the ToS, and he should have been at least thread banned early on. I had the unusual task as a moderator of staying out of the thread and speaking directly to him via Direct Messaging in order to get him to understand the rules on what he could and couldn't say. For example, I told him he couldn't accuse Mitchell and Doolette of fraud without giving specific examples of that fraud, which he never did. We thought the thread was providing valuable information to divers, and since Ross was pretty much the only person on his side of the argument, we wanted to keep him in the game long enough to keep the information flowing. Eventually it became too much.

Despite RH's overbearing, bombastic style, those were some of the most entertaining and informative threads ever. The responses from SM and DD were brilliant.

 

[harvalen]

Outside of technical diving, it looks like a deep stop may reduce bubbles in recreational divers.

Apart from the things @L13 mentioned.

For the recreational tests with no stop, safety stop, or safety stop + deep stop. The safety stop is at 6 m. You're not off-gassing that well at 6 m, would be interesting to have a test with shallow stop at 3-4 m.

Similarly, for the "so called shallow stop profile" with 5 min @ 9 m, 26 min @ 6 m and 3 min @ 3 m. It actually spends more time below 3 m than the "deep stop profile", which ends with 6 min @ 3 m. He says it's buhlmann where he compares bubble counts between the two profiles, but I'm not sure how you get a longer 6 m stop than the 3 m stop with buhlmann. It looks like they forced the last stop depth to 6 m and then added a short safety stop at 3 m at the end to match the total runtime of the deep stop profile. Would be interesting to actually have a shallow profile that spent an appropriate time at 3 m.

 

[dmaziuk]

As I recall the starting point of (some of) Ross's arguments was that models have bounds and if your experiment's parameters are out of those bounds, your results do not apply to the model. As in, there's no such thing as "VPM-B +7.5 to the power of pi", so if your decompression profiles fit that, whatever comes out has nothing to do with VPM.

Kind of like #46 here: now we think maybe ZH-L16+GF doesn't work so well if you push it past 120m.

Of course Ross went off the deep end so far so quickly that any bit of rationality in his argument flew out the window and got lost in the flamefest.

 

[rob.mwpropane]

@rob.mwpropane - I've found this one for multi-level/repetitive.

Diveplanner Tec & Rec - Apps on Google Play

Plan your technical and recreational dives in seconds !

play.google.com

For single, squarish profiles, I use TechDeco. Typically I'm only doing one deco dive per day, so it works well for my purposes.

techdeco - Android Apps on Google Play

Enjoy millions of the latest Android apps, games, music, movies, TV, books, magazines & more. Anytime, anywhere, across your devices.

play.google.com

If you've already bought MD, though, it's the defacto standard. I was just never a fan of RH's "communication style" when I read all the old threads I could find on the topic. It's not a surprise he's banned. Like some others, I felt like voting with my wallet.

I have both of these. Techdeco is a good sanity check because it's easy to set a dive up (but only one dive like you said). I have the other one but if I remember correctly it had a hard time with switching to imperial... things looked off, maybe that's changed.

I end up doing 2 deco dives, but it's really light deco, say 15-20 min of deco... just doing baby steps working my way up. It's nice to be able to plan worst case scenario for both dives and know that I have more than enough gas for the entire trip. Sometimes that's 2 sets of doubles, sometimes just a larger tank to whip out of.