OP
Luis H:
That would be really cool. I have a pack coming and want to try it out asap. I expect to have it for the weekend. The warm water is a limited time offer up here!
Pete
Difficulty of vintage diving
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That would be really cool. I have a pack coming and want to try it out asap. I expect to have it for the weekend. The warm water is a limited time offer up here!
Pete
I'm new to Double hose regs. but not diving. I just rebuilt a Dacor r-4. and well, no HP port or "J" valve left me a little apprehensive. So I scrounged through my Boxes of old dive gear and I found a Dacor "K" valve with what could only be a port for a pressure gage. bingo I installed a gauge on the valve and it worked. I was a little concerned about buoyancy So ... with no Auxiliary ports on the Dacor R-4 my solution was to use a pony bottle. I hate having too many things haning off of me so..on my pony I have a mark 25 1st stage with only one hose to a scuba pro air 2. that gives me a safe octo and BCD control. I dont have a pool to try this out. so I have protected shallow site scoped out in the ocean.I am aware that 2 hose regs clear different. other than that are there any other considerations that I have not thought of?....... any bodys input would be greatly appreciated Mahalo
Welcome to the board. This is an old post and lots have changed since it was active. There has been a bunch of us who have joined the vintage diving ranks and the vintage activity on the board has expanded a lot. This vintage section is only a year or so old. There is a lot of information in the section on your questions.
To more directly answer your question, you really do not need the pony or the LP ports. Vintage diving requires more attention to your weighting and proper breath control. Unless you are diving with a lot of exposure protection (and then modern wetsuits as opposed to vintage ones- they are different) you really do not need a BC. The average persons lung buoyancy is 6-10 lbs, quite a lot. If you properly weight you can easily deal with the few pounds of weight shift from air usage. For example, I dive 4lbs of lead when diving warm salt water (0 in warm fresh) with no wet suit, just a fleece lined skin which is neutrally buoyant. At the beginning of the dive I am about 2 lbs heavy (AL-80 tank) which puts me dead on neutral at 1500psi and about 2 lbs light at the end of the dive. 2 lbs either way is very easy for me to deal with, after a few dives I really did not notice it, it has become natural to me. Once you stop relying on a BC to correct your weighting issues and get the feel for diving without one it's fairly easy. If you need lots of exposure protection then things do change and then is the time to consider some form of BC. Here is an exercise for you, go dive with your normal gear. First, do a very good weight check with your final weighting at 2 lbs heavy with a full tank. This should make you dead on neutral at 1500 psi. Make sure you have all the air out of your BC and get as much air out of your equipment (inside your wetsuit) as possible. Now do the dive but make an effort to not touch your BC inflator unless you just have to, adding air ends the vintage training. Concentrate on using your lungs as your buoyancy control. Use deep slow breaths, varying the depth, length and cadance to tweek your buoyancy. Diving should be slow and graceful, not fast and brute force. You may need to swim down a few feet to get yourself going but that is fairly common, there was an old saying- Swim down, swim around and swim back up...there is a lot of truth in it. Since I started vintage diving, I rarely touch my inflator even when I am diving modern (dry suit is an exception
) . Check this link out, starting on page 7. It is of a vintage dive in April of this year in the Bahamas. The photos with a wreck in the background were at about 90 ft, most of us had no BC at all. A lot of the faces are active members of this board. Vintage Double Hose • View topic - SAND DOG VI in the Bahamas
It is also very improtant you understand the workings of a DH reg. Not only do they clear differently, it is important that they be properly worn on the body. Unlike single hose regs that are pretty much imune to postioning, a DH must be worn low between the shoulder blades and as close to the body as possible, otherwise they will breath very badly. A lot of modern BCs will not allow you to attach a tank low enough or keep the reg close enough to your back. Also expect changes in the breathing resistance when you change position. A properly operating DH reg should breath normally when you are in a horizonal position, more difficult when head down, very easy when head up and it WILL freeflow some when you roll onto your back.
Hope that helps. Please do look over the entire Vintage section, there is tons of information to be had and welcome to vintage diving.
To more directly answer your question, you really do not need the pony or the LP ports. Vintage diving requires more attention to your weighting and proper breath control. Unless you are diving with a lot of exposure protection (and then modern wetsuits as opposed to vintage ones- they are different) you really do not need a BC. The average persons lung buoyancy is 6-10 lbs, quite a lot. If you properly weight you can easily deal with the few pounds of weight shift from air usage. For example, I dive 4lbs of lead when diving warm salt water (0 in warm fresh) with no wet suit, just a fleece lined skin which is neutrally buoyant. At the beginning of the dive I am about 2 lbs heavy (AL-80 tank) which puts me dead on neutral at 1500psi and about 2 lbs light at the end of the dive. 2 lbs either way is very easy for me to deal with, after a few dives I really did not notice it, it has become natural to me. Once you stop relying on a BC to correct your weighting issues and get the feel for diving without one it's fairly easy. If you need lots of exposure protection then things do change and then is the time to consider some form of BC. Here is an exercise for you, go dive with your normal gear. First, do a very good weight check with your final weighting at 2 lbs heavy with a full tank. This should make you dead on neutral at 1500 psi. Make sure you have all the air out of your BC and get as much air out of your equipment (inside your wetsuit) as possible. Now do the dive but make an effort to not touch your BC inflator unless you just have to, adding air ends the vintage training. Concentrate on using your lungs as your buoyancy control. Use deep slow breaths, varying the depth, length and cadance to tweek your buoyancy. Diving should be slow and graceful, not fast and brute force. You may need to swim down a few feet to get yourself going but that is fairly common, there was an old saying- Swim down, swim around and swim back up...there is a lot of truth in it. Since I started vintage diving, I rarely touch my inflator even when I am diving modern (dry suit is an exception
) . Check this link out, starting on page 7. It is of a vintage dive in April of this year in the Bahamas. The photos with a wreck in the background were at about 90 ft, most of us had no BC at all. A lot of the faces are active members of this board. Vintage Double Hose • View topic - SAND DOG VI in the BahamasIt is also very improtant you understand the workings of a DH reg. Not only do they clear differently, it is important that they be properly worn on the body. Unlike single hose regs that are pretty much imune to postioning, a DH must be worn low between the shoulder blades and as close to the body as possible, otherwise they will breath very badly. A lot of modern BCs will not allow you to attach a tank low enough or keep the reg close enough to your back. Also expect changes in the breathing resistance when you change position. A properly operating DH reg should breath normally when you are in a horizonal position, more difficult when head down, very easy when head up and it WILL freeflow some when you roll onto your back.
Hope that helps. Please do look over the entire Vintage section, there is tons of information to be had and welcome to vintage diving.
It should really only free flow with the mouthpiece removed from your mouth but---lol.
After you play around with the R4, get on eBay and get yourself a USD DA Aqua Master. Then you are cooking with gas.
N, swim down, swim around, swim back up.
After you play around with the R4, get on eBay and get yourself a USD DA Aqua Master. Then you are cooking with gas.
N, swim down, swim around, swim back up.
That is one of the reasons some of us have gone to using the longer duckbills to try and center the apex of the duckbill directly over the center of the diaphragm. If you are not already doing that see if that helps. As long as the mouthpiece is in your mouth the regulator should see a closed loop in terms of pressure differential until you inhale or the mouthpiece is removed, yeah, in a perfect world.
I nearly melted my strobe and still I don't have as many pics as I thought I did, I tried to get shots of everybody but I failed, just to much going on I guess. We got some of Rob,.
N
I nearly melted my strobe and still I don't have as many pics as I thought I did, I tried to get shots of everybody but I failed, just to much going on I guess. We got some of Rob,
.N
OP
Diving in a vintage configuration is not difficult assuming you know how to dive in the first place. There is a limit to how much neoprene you can wear if you want to be neutral in the water column throughout the dive. Getting your weight just right is a must have. After that it's all about managing lung volume and a little swimming technique. You will be able to sense the change in cylinder content so plan to feel a little heavy at the beginning of the dive. It gets you the closest to that "bird in flight "sensation.
Early wetsuits varied in composition and style but rarely approached what we consider a common 7mmm suit with 2X on the core. If you watch shows like sea-hunt you will see that they are diving like praying zombies, they are swimming the dive.
Diving in a vintage configuration need not mean having no buoyancy compensator. There are various buoyancy control items from yesteryear such as a horse collar that will let you dive any exposure protection you want.
In addition to the BC you can celebrate the early days of diving in a reproduction smooth skin wetsuit, traditional fins or an old or reproduction oval style mask.
Probably the most readily recognized form of vintage diving is using a double hose regulator. In addition to being different it has some practical advantages such as keeping the bubbles out of sight. A few select models can be upgraded with a bevy of new and reproduction parts to offer all of the modern day accouterments while retaining the look, feel and benefits of the original design as shown here.
In addition to the gear there is a thriving community of vintage divers that all too willing to welcome another budding enthusiasts. Finding yourself in the company of a mentor is indispensable just as it is for diving in general.
Where the heck did 4-1/2 years go?
Pete
I had forgotten how pretty your reg was, been a while since I saw that web site. You need to get one of the reproduction Voit hour glass mouthpieces for it, I like them a better than the curved USD ones.
Have you seen the new reproduction Voit Blue 50's....way cool, look exactly like the originals.
Have you seen the new reproduction Voit Blue 50's....way cool, look exactly like the originals.
David Wilson
Contributor
Indeed. You can also enjoy simple snorkelling the old-fashioned way. Vintage fins and masks are easily obtainable from eBay and other sources, while a few companies in certain countries, e.g. USA, Mexico, Brazil, France, Italy, Greece, Hungary, Turkey, Russia, Ukraine, China, Taiwan, Japan and Malaysia, haven't given up making basic gear in traditional designs and materials.
As for exposure suits, you aren't limited to wetsuits, whose invention postdated the earliest drysuits. A couple of American firms still make historical valve-less waist- and chest-entry skin diving drysuits. You can learn a lot about watertightness, warmth and buoyancy control when donning, sealing, venting and doffing such suits.
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