DIR primary and backup regs

[mth71]

I pose this question mainly to the DIR divers out there, as that's the DIRection (sorry, I couldn't resist) that I think I'd like to take in my diving career (I have only 5 dives under my belt thus far). Of course, I value input from any diver.

I'm trying to put together my gear, and am now down to deciding what regs to get. I'm about ninety some-odd percent sure that I'll get the Apeks ATX-200 for my primary (though I'm looking into the Poseiden Jestream/Odin). I've read somewhere that the backup reg should not be the normal octopus type; are they saying that it should be just another primary? Surely the backup should not be inferior to the primary, even though it (hopefully) won't ever be used (which I'm sure is unlikely). So my question boils down to this: should I buy two primary (quality) regs, where one will function purely as the backup?

(I know from reading the many many posts on this board that there are lots of high quality regulators, both primary and backup, which makes my decision-making process that much more difficult, but that's a good thing. Based on my readings, I'd probably opt for an Apeks ATX50, but that's an octopus (bonus question: why was it ever called an octopus? I just started hearing the term in my OW class, but it was never explained why it was called that.))

Thanks in advance to everyone who participates in this thread (I hope that this particular question hasn't been asked before. I did do a search beforehand to try to find out, but found nothing close enough to what I was trying to find out.)

P.S. As an aside, is there any reason why a new diver such as myself may want to consider a DIN valve or a yoke? Since I haven't mentioned it, I would like to do cave and wreck diving eventually, in case that makes a difference. Thank you.

 

[Scubaroo]

An ATX40 makes a perfectly acceptable backup - you don't need the adjustable knob on a bailout regulator. Cheaper too

No reason not to get DIN, unless you can only rent yoke tanks.

 

[deepocean]

Hi

search on this forum, said alot on this.
But the 200 is ok. In fact i am using it as prim and sec. No freeflow. So you can use it as your back up also.
Actually i ve never ever seen an Apeks freeflow, they are not very sensitive to freeflow. So you can use the 200 as back up if you like or the "lower" lines.

Although i have to say even a atx40 (DS4) is a very good reg, in my opinion there is no big difference (in reliability) between the 40 and the 200.
200 is a better breather IMHO and that is all.

Xerxes

p.s. I dont know what the prices are there, but here DIN is cheaper. If you can defenitly go for the DIN 300

 

[Mverick]

DIR is kinda for Dual's. Where you would have One Reg set on one 300bar DIN valve. And Another Reg set on the second 300bar DIN valve. You only have one second stage to each set.

You would want the Same 1st stage for both sets. So if you go with a ATX200 you would want 2 sets of those. I use TX50's/DS4. TX100's would work too. I prefer the larger TX reg. It's easier to find and can take it apart underwater easier.

By the way, the second stage on the TX100 is supposed to be a TX50. Just looks different. Haven't had mine apart to check though.

For Singles if you get one DIN 300bar ATX200 and another second stage. When you go to buy the second set for duals you'll be getting another 200 for you first stage.

DIR also used ScubaPro MK20/G250HP's for regs also....

But diving duals is a long way down the road. And the Apeks line are all great regs.. You could definately get a cheaper second. Cause you'll be buying another firststage later and usually it isn't much more to get the set over just the first stage.....

 

[deepocean]

Hi

he myth if you are low on cash like me(a poor student ) safe your money for a desent HID lamp. Dive singles till you got enough money for doubles. A single wing is never wasted money. And a good HID is nt either.
As you can hear, the ATX50 (DS4!! ) is a great reg. If you are going to dive tech you are going to use helium anyway, that breathes far more lighter than air. Another reason to choose the DS4.

But if you are going to dive air go with the 200 because this babe breathes better then any other reg i ve tasted at depth.

Mverik: dont bother to open :winkbl: they are indeed the same, except a couple of minor adjustments. I have schematics here but no scanner

I will try to scan then in two weeks if you really need to see it. (like i deed )

greetings, Xerxes

p.s. abouth SP: it is very strange to say maybe but i find SP a slightly better breather above 45 feet, but beneath the 45 the Apeks is clearly better. First i thought i was mistaking but i did the test with my buddy (made also make the comparisson) but did nt tell him abouth this, and strange enough he said EXACTLY the same thing Is this normal you think?

 

[mth71]

So the DS4 is only the first stage of the system, and I would still have to get a second stage, right? (That's if/when I get that regulator as my diving justifies it.) So it is possible to "pick and choose" the first and second stages? So when you, Mverick, say that you have a TX50/DS4, you had to buy the two stages seperately?

While there are some people who say that diving singles is a waste of time (because of the rather short bottom times at any practical depth), I'm sure that's all I'll be doing until I become a skilled diver and learn more about the sport. With that said, is a DIN still an appropriate choice? I'll check with my LDS about whether their tanks can accept a DIN valve, but I'm betting that I'll have to buy my own tank if I want to go the DIN route.

Thanks for all the input, guys. I'm learning more about diving all the time. I have so many questions, but I'm looking forward to learning more when my copy of "Doing It Right: Fundamentals of Better Diving" arrives. I'm sure I'll be up all night reading that one!

Thanks again.

Mark

 

[Zerogravity]

I use 2 SP MK20's with 2 G250 2nd stages. Long hose is the newer G250hp, while short hose is older model g250. I'm old school, however. Probably ANY Apeks reg is great (judging by the old Zeagle Flathead 6 and Tech 50 D) which were made by Apeks. I haven't dove the newer ones. Iwouldn't recommend the Poseidon because if you will incur greater expense finding a long hose with the proper fitting. Also, because of this fitting the hoses are not universally interchangeable. You wouldn't be able to use just any hose if there was a problem of some sort out in the field. Some people (jarrod jablonski, george irivine , WKPP et al.) don't recommend the poseidon due to the upstream valve (almost all other regs are downstream), which could cut off air flow if the seating mechanism fails causing the seat to push closed against the orifice. On the other hand, Poseidon regs are well made and have been used for years by the tech/cave community w/o faliure or mishap. From a reliablility/breathablility standpoint you really can't go wrong with Posiedon, Apeks or SP.

 

[Mverick]

mth71 once bubbled...
So the DS4 is only the first stage of the system, and I would still have to get a second stage, right? (That's if/when I get that regulator as my diving justifies it.) So it is possible to "pick and choose" the first and second stages? So when you, Mverick, say that you have a TX50/DS4, you had to buy the two stages seperately?

Yep, DS4 is just the first stage. You can get an atx 50, atx 40, tx 50, tx40 and a 20 with it. It's up to you. They also have a DST first stage. It's a turret design and where the hoses go will pivot. But it's not really needed for what I do and it's an extra failure point I didn't want.
When I bought my TX50/DS4's they had a sale. I think I paid $150 US for each set. I bought 6. I also have TX100 DIN. I have 16 or 17 tanks also. Plus 2 or 3 ScubaPro MK20's 2 G250 regs and a 500 second stage. Also a sherwood blizzard or two lying around with DIN.

I have 1 MK20UL/G500 ScubaPro with a Yoke fitting. I use it for trips. Usually bring a TX50/DS4 along for a spare.

Usually you buy regs as a set. Usually you can pick your first and second stage. But they still come as a set. You can buy just a single First stage or Second stage. But you get a better deal if you buy a set.

mth71 once bubbled...

While there are some people who say that diving singles is a waste of time (because of the rather short bottom times at any practical depth), I'm sure that's all I'll be doing until I become a skilled diver and learn more about the sport. With that said, is a DIN still an appropriate choice? I'll check with my LDS about whether their tanks can accept a DIN valve, but I'm betting that I'll have to buy my own tank if I want to go the DIN route.

And I dive singles still too. On trips and with students. Just depending on what I want to do. With so many tanks and regs I've got lots of options.... Sometimes I just use a little 50cf tank....

There tanks have a k valve and would require a Yoke. You can get your reg with a Yoke and convert it to DIN later. DIN kit is around $50. With Instalation your looking at $100. Or you can get it with DIN now and get a DIN to Yoke converter for around $45. Then you can swap it back and forth. But the DIN to yoke converter isn't as stable as a standard Yoke. It's up to you. Depending on how long till you buy your own tanks.... If it's a year or two down the road. Get the Yoke....

 

[mth71]

Great information guys, but I have one more question, just to clarify that I understand things correctly.

Let's say that I've narrowed down my choice for a first stage to a DS4 or ATX-200. Even though the ATX-200 is, from how I understand it (from the pics shown on the Apeks/Seaquest website), sold as a complete regulator unit (both first and second stage), is the ATX-200 technically the first stage, with some other designation used for the second stage? So, if I wanted to get the DS4 instead of the ATX-200, but wanted the same second stage that comes with the 200, what would I specify? I wonder if the second stage used on the ATX-200 is the same used on the ATX-100. Is the ATX-50 just the first stage, the second stage, or the complete setup? Sorry if I'm asking too many questions, I hope they make sense and aren't too confusing.

Okay, I lied, I have one more question. If I find out that the tanks my LDS uses don't support a DIN (the DS4), do I have to go with a yoke instead? I've not paid attention when the tanks are filled, but can the valves come off easily to that I could use a DIN instead? And if I have to use an A adapter, does that allow me to use the DS4 with the tank without having to unscrew anything?

I'm definitely glad I have the accumulated knowledge and vast experience of everyone who has offered their input. I feel that I am in a much better position to get exactly the type of equipment I want instead of being sold into buying what the LDS wants me to buy (when I asked about a ScubaPro reg the other day, they said they don't carry them and they aren't very good anyway. They also seemed to push me towards their Oceanic tech BC (I forget which model) and away from a Seaquest, before I began looking at BP/wings. Don't get me wrong, though, it's a great shop with great people, but they are in business to make money, so I can sort of understand their salesmanship. I'll be ordering my BP/wings from FredT and Extreme Exposure this week.)

Thanks again.

Mark

 

[Zerogravity]

First, find a new dive shop that will tell you the truth about gear, not just try and sell/recommend the gear they carry. 2nd..,go ahead and buy the DIN regs. The valves on your tanks are easily switched from yoke to DIN. If you decide to get into cave/wreck diving on any level you will have to have DIN regs to undertake the training required to do it safely and competently. I use dual regs on single 100 cuft tanks when diving in open water, and the valves are DIN "H" valves. If you ever need to dive a yoked tank, simply get a DIN to Yoke adapter and your all set. HappyDiving DSAO ZG.