Dive Flag Law Again!!

[Jim Lapenta]

I wonder if they make Teddy use a dive flag?

 

[SteveAD]

Be careful about skirting the spirit of the law.

The "spirit of the law" is to get around the free the beaches law and make it too much of a PITA to dive there. Having each diver tow an individual line would make for a bigger spaghetti fest than the night before the boston marathon. The law, as interpreted is patently discriminatory and unsafe.

 

[spectrum]

The "spirit of the law" is to get around the free the beaches law and make it too much of a PITA to dive there. Having each diver tow an individual line would make for a bigger spaghetti fest than the night before the boston marathon. The law, as interpreted is patently discriminatory and unsafe.

I fully appreciate the frustration and peril that following the law entails and how money talks and that our precious seaside is falling into the hands of far to few well heeled possessive owners.

My point is that if this is truly an enacted law and if enforcement finds any diver surfacing not personally towing a flag he or she will be diving without a flag. If taken to court a judge would consider the flag array "cute". I just looked back through some threads and did not see the actual statute in question cited verbatim. I can envision poorly written verbiage that would make the array somewhat defensible but it would still be a crap shoot in court. The again taking your chances on a $100 fine is about on par with a charter fee & tip.......

Pete

 

[diver 85]

I was out at Lane's Cove Yesterday (Friday 8/24). I was diving alone and there were three others on the rocks. As we were sitting there chatting the Gloucester Harbor Master Showed up.

He said that he was going around the dive sites this weekend to inform divers about the "ordinance" requiring one dive flag per diver. He said that shortly, he will be posting signs to that effect at all the popular dive sites. He also told us that "at that point he will be enforcing the law and that any diver found to be diving with-out a flag would be fined $100.00".

I asked him how it would work with groups like O/W classes, boat charters and other large organized groups. He acknowledged the dangers of such. He told me that he would grant waivers on a case by case basis. He said the policy will be to call his office a day or two before a dive with the dive site, date, and names of the divers in the group, and he would waive the rule for that dive or set of dives.

I might add that he was not acting like a jerk or anything like that.

Again, this is not second hand information - It came strait from the Gloucester Harbor Master.

Al

how will he know which 'owns' the flag....guess they can split the ticket(bill)......$50 each???.........

 

[SteveAD]

I fully appreciate the frustration and peril that following the law entails and how money talks and that our precious seaside is falling into the hands of far to few well heeled possessive owners.

My point is that if this is truly an enacted law and if enforcement finds any diver surfacing not personally towing a flag he or she will be diving without a flag. If taken to court a judge would consider the flag array "cute". I just looked back through some threads and did not see the actual statute in question cited verbatim. I can envision poorly written verbiage that would make the array somewhat defensible but it would still be a crap shoot in court. The again taking your chances on a $100 fine is about on par with a charter fee & tip.......

Pete

The below is copied directly from the city of gloucester website:

http://www.ci.gloucester.ma.us/inde...er_op=view_page&PAGE_id=17&MMN_position=37:37


Sec. 10-81. Scuba and skin diving.
(a) Driver's flag. Scuba or skin divers within the Gloucester waterways shall display a diver's flag consisting of a white diagonal stripe on a red field not less than twelve by fifteen inches (12 X 15) in size. The flag shall be displayed upright on a float or similar device at a height sufficient to be seen by passing vessels. The diver shall trail this flag while submerged, unless the harbormaster grants permission to do otherwise, and shall surface within twenty-five (25) feet of the flag.

(b) Distance from buoys. The diver shall maintain a distance of at least twenty-five (25) feet and stay clear when vessels are hauling traps in the immediate area.

(c) Prohibition. The harbormaster may prohibit scuba or skin diving in areas within Gloucester waterways where such diving cannot, in the harbormaster's opinion, be carried out safely without undue inconvenience to vessel operations.

(d) Beach regulations. Scuba or skin divers must comply with beach regulations promulgated by the director of public works.

Section (a) clearly reads "Scuba or skin divers within the Gloucester waterways shall display a diver's flag" that's divers plural and flag singular.

As I mentioned in my previous post, the law as currently INTERPRETED (I didn't say written) is discriminatory and unsafe. The people responsible for the current interpretation are the lobstermen and the city council. While the City council is responsible for enacting laws, constitutionally, the courts are responsible for interpreting them, and I'm pretty sure that lobstermen are not mentioned anywhere in the constitution. The only way to truly put this issue to bed will be for someone to get cited for a violation, fight it in court, and let a judge interpret the law for what it actually says.

 

[Medic0506]

I was planning on diving there soon too. Is anyone aware of any other states / places which require each diver to have a flag?

 

[lcl]

This is slightly off-topic, but it seems it might be good to cultivate warm relations with the lobstermen. We could suggest that they tag their traps with identification, and then we can return bouy-less traps to them. There might be other ways as well in which we could be helpful to the lobstering community.

 

[adshepard]

This is slightly off-topic, but it seems it might be good to cultivate warm relations with the lobstermen. We could suggest that they tag their traps with identification, and then we can return bouy-less traps to them. There might be other ways as well in which we could be helpful to the lobstering community.

In Maine the traps do have ID tags on them. When I find a washed up trap that is in good shape on the beaches near our summer home I just haul them down to the town pier and let the lobstermen claim their own traps. It's the neighbourly thing to do.

I'm not sure that you'd want to try and haul ghost traps from the deep out of the water. Those things are damn heavy.

Alan

 

[Satori]

I have one question": Is it free to apply/obtain a waiver? On what criteria are waivers given?

 

[DivingsInMyBlood]

isnt it usally 1 flag for every 4 divers in a group or something like that?