Dive Operations enforcing rules

[scubadobadoo]

Threads like these always remind me why I shore dive locally and go to Bonaire again and again. I can stand Cozumel but only with one specific operation. I love to boat dive but because I have spent most of my life in LA and NYC, the last thing I want to see during a dive on vacation is a bunch of people and the specific rules that come with a bunch of people. I am a people person for a living. I love it but I don't want it on vacation.

 

[scubafanatic]

I think that whetheran operator is strict about rule enforcement or not, if you as a diver go on a trip with an operator, then you are obligated to follow their rules. If you don't like those rules, use a different operator. There is no special dispensation because you are a diving god. I have read posts on ScubaBoard from people who brag about refusing to follow such rules, and I have no admiration for that attitude.

A number of years ago I went to Grand Cayman, and as soon as I arrived I went out with the dive operator stationed at our resort. On that dive we were all required to follow the DM in single file for a 35 minute dive. I did that. As soon as I was back in my room, I did the research I should have done before the trip and found an operator much more to my liking, located only a few miles away.

If you want to stage a rebellion, do it by looking for another operator, not by starting an insurrection during the dive. Better yet, do your research and make sure you will be going with an operator whose rules you can respect.

You're assuming that dive ops post their 'rules/limits' such that they're disclosed to customers before they sign up for their trip/dives, which is almost NEVER the case! The only way such rules are discovered is when it's too late and you're on the boat/at the dive site, then the 'briefing' is used to drop those little bombshells....OOPS!

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What rules have you found to be stupid?

How about a 30 m max depth limit ? I don't respect arbitrary/mindless rules pulled out of someone's *ss! If I hear the reasonable logic behind a rule, I'll respect it.

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If guests want to rent a boat, tank and weights for the day (and have the ability to do it safely), then they can dive for as long or as short as they like. The cost of renting said boat may or may not be prohibitively expensive but if they're part of a group it may well be good value for money. I did it fairly regularly in the Philippines.

Here I don't normally see guests who ask for this option, but if someone did and I had the opportunity to verify their abilities underwater, I personally wouldn't have a problem (except for a bit more stress hoping everything was OK) with divers taking that option.

The difference is that when you sign up as an individual or buddy pair on a diving boat with a determined schedule (ie. staff want to get back for some lunch), there will be 'rules'. The 500psi rule is nothing to complain about IMO. It allows a diver 5/6 of the pressure which aint bad in my books and is a world-wide, established safety standard.

there would likely be less pushback against the 500 psi rule if so many ops didn't do 'short fills', giving divers an incentive to make up for the gas shortage by pushing the 500 psi residual.

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Really? Someone should have torched his C-card....and sent him packing.

Darwin will revoke it eventually.

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I do my own dive plan. The dive op does not do it for me. Somehow, I suspect you do the same.

None of the ops I dive with have a "500 psi" rule. And all the ops I dive with permit solo diving.

I have not had any problem finding suitable dive ops even if they are "out of the norm". I have no problem submitting to all the rules I accepted at the time I contracted services. It is the rules that are added later (or changed) that may cause a problem. Sometimes the problem can be worked out. If not, then we could end up with no tips or even my not diving and a charge back on the CC. I had a DM from an op that advertised diving your gas and computer and then shortened the dives and had us surfacing with well over 1000 psi so he could make it to his afternoon client. A withheld tip and a discussion with the dive op took care of that problem the next day.

BTW, I am getting the impression that the norms in the Maldives are not necessarily the norms of most quality dive destinations.

The ONLY other place I've ever heard of that has any sort of Government Mandated depth limit are the Caymans @ 110 ' I believe. Which is actually hilarious, given the whole point of Caymans diving is WALL DIVING !!!

 

[stevensamler]

One group in SoCal will sit you for the rest of the day if you surface with less than 500psi. One of our local boats will not allow dives of more than one hour. I made a 67 minute dive from it and was scolded by the Captain. I haven't gone back on that boat since.

Must have been the Spectre?

 

[scubafanatic]

I don't know a thing about diving Bonne Terre, but I have encountered all the other rules quoted above, and I saw the reason for them. No gloves and no cutting devices (knives) are common rules (laws, actually) in marine parks. They are there to discourage divers from manhandling and damaging the environment. The fine for using either in Grand Cayman can be huge.

No lights is a common rule in the proximity to overhead environments for people who are not properly trained for it. The purpose is to keep unqualified people from penetrating and getting lost.

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The "No Gloves" rule reminds me of a story related to the topic of this thread. I was diving in Belize in the summer, and the water was quite warm. A father and two teenage sons showed up for a day's diving, and I noted that they were wearing no exposure protection on their bodies, just a swimsuit and T-shirts. Then I saw them pulling on 5 mm gloves, and I thought, "What the...?" I didn't pay much attention to them at first during the dive, but later on I saw the reason: they all had no buoyancy or kicking skills whatsoever, and they used their hands to grasp the coral and pull their way around the reef. I tried to make some gestures to make them understand that I disapproved, but they had no clue what I meant. After the first dive, I talked to the DM about it. He said he had seen it and would talk to them about it before the second dive to make sure it didn't happen again. On the second dive I just watched and saw that the DM had not done a blessed thing. They still did the same thing, and the DM watched them without reaction as they did.

I wil admit now before asked that I did nothing myself, either.

About Caymans and knives...I ALWAYS bring a line cutter and a small, blunt tip dive knife on my harness as it's required safety gear according to 'my' laws anyway. I've dove in many places that officially forbid knives, always bring one anyway (it's only 3.5" long/black handle so it's pretty stealthy) and I've NEVER had any dive op approach me about it. If I'm not actually using the knife, will Caymans dive ops forget about it like other dive ops have done in every other place I've dove ?

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The only rules that I have a hard time following are the "changing" rules. Being told one thing when booking your trip by someone from the shop or agency and then to have the DM change it up once on the boat. This has happened to me a few times, and when I asked back at the shop about the change, it ends up that the DM had his own interpretation of what their requirements are.

Most of the standard rules make sense and things like total dive time are more of a courtesy to the rest of the group if you have a fairly large number of people.

The no glove and knife rule really doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If you are not supposed to touch the reef, what difference does it make if you have gloves on. I know some people would be more apt to grab the corral with gloves on, but usually they are kicking the hell out of things with their fins anyhow. On one trip my wife got into some fire coral on a mooring line and was miserable for about a week. She is really sensitive to it. She would prefer to wear gloves anytime there is a possibility of her coming into contact with it. She has never had anyone tell her she could not wear her gloves once we explained the situation, even in Cozumel.....

I try to seek out dive ops that cater to small groups of more advanced divers. Usually after the first dive or two, the rules become fairly insignificant.......

Fortunately, for the most part, after you pass 'inspection' by them watching you on a dive or two, dive ops with a brain will allow you to do your thing, and save their babysitting energy for those who demonstrate they actually need it.

 

[stevensamler]

I find it really funny we all know not to damage the reef and it's inhabitants , we hear the same thing at the dive briefing " rules right". So why do dive ops drop their fore and aft anchors with heavy chain and rope on the reef?

 

[boulderjohn]

You're assuming that dive ops post their 'rules/limits' such that they're disclosed to customers before they sign up for their trip/dives, which is almost NEVER the case! The only way such rules are discovered is when it's too late and you're on the boat/at the dive site, then the 'briefing' is used to drop those little bombshells....OOPS!

I never rely on the operator posting those rules. You can find out by going to places like the Regional Travel section of ScubaBoard, reading what is already there, and asking new questions. There's a thread active right now in which a diver was warned about the overly restrictive rules of one of the operators in Aruba. I selected the operator I use when I go to Cozumel that way, and if that operator were to disappear, I can select from a whole bunch of others whose policies and practices I know pretty well without even glancing at their web sites. It takes surprisingly little time to select an operator whose policies you can live with before you arrive on site.

 

[scubafanatic]

That PDF was an intersting read. Never realized the Maldives were such a nanny state. I know where I won't be traveling to now.

Imagine how much $ you could make if you perfected a water-proof scuba radar-gun and got a contract to sell them to the Maldives government ?

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I never rely on the operator posting those rules. You can find out by going to places like the Regional Travel section of ScubaBoard, reading what is already there, and asking new questions. There's a thread active right now in which a diver was warned about the overly restrictive rules of one of the operators in Aruba. I selected the operator I use when I go to Cozumel that way, and if that operator were to disappear, I can select from a whole bunch of others whose policies and practices I know pretty well without even glancing at their web sites. It takes surprisingly little time to select an operator whose policies you can live with before you arrive on site.

The moral of the story is that there would be less diver rebellion if the dive ops advertising proactively volunteered this information versus divers having to do their own investigation. Additionally, I'll bet the number of divers who are active on Scubaboard (or have even heard of it) is a microscopic fraction of the dive population 'at risk' of getting cheated, so researching Scubaboard isn't going to help most divers.

 

[Hawkwood]

I never rely on the operator posting those rules. You can find out by going to places like the Regional Travel section of ScubaBoard, reading what is already there, and asking new questions. There's a thread active right now in which a diver was warned about the overly restrictive rules of one of the operators in Aruba. I selected the operator I use when I go to Cozumel that way, and if that operator were to disappear, I can select from a whole bunch of others whose policies and practices I know pretty well without even glancing at their web sites. It takes surprisingly little time to select an operator whose policies you can live with before you arrive on site.

Yup, it's pretty easy to find out. Email works, so does an amazing device called the telephone...you can use it for more than just texting. Doesn't always work out but I've done it before. Email is a good indicator as well. If I don't get a response, or just get a simple "canned" response, I look elsewhere. I had a lively email exchange withe Andrew Western of Ecodive Barbados a couple of months before we went. By the time I showed up, both he and I knew just what to expect from each other. Neither was disappointed. In fact, of all the operators I have used, Andrew was the most thorough.

Same thing when we went to Playa del Carmen late last year. Emailed five different operators. Got a "canned" email response from four - "fill in this form" - no good vibes that way. Got one personal email from Jorge at Scorpio Divers - a few emails back and forth and we had everything arranged. It's so simple to ask the questions before hand.

Bill

 

[tracydr]

Why can't you dive dry without gloves? My drysuit uses wet gloves. If you go anywhere like Bonaire, you will have to be without gloves, dry or not. Although, it's plenty warm so I don't know why you would dive dry there.

 

[50Fathom]

Why can't you dive dry without gloves? My drysuit uses wet gloves. If you go anywhere like Bonaire, you will have to be without gloves, dry or not. Although, it's plenty warm so I don't know why you would dive dry there.

Personal preference. I hate being wet.



Plus, and this is weird...I friggin' LOVE drygloves. Most drysuit divers I know hate 'em. Shoot, I've got teammates that dive dry that REFUSE to use 'em. Most divers that use 'em do it because they have to and they don't like it.

They went on my suit last year and haven't come off. Wrist seals? LOL.

Matter of fact, I just got back from the lake. 77-80 degree water and I'm in my TLS-350 with 300-weight undies and drygloves. Not overheated and LOVING it. Had the same setup last week down to 52 degrees and felt like a million bucks. Except I wore a hood then.

I just LOVE being dry.