dive-training.com

[SwimJim]

How much more can you cut before we see dead bodies floating around? When I got certified the first time back in '78 there were six classes. Once a week for six weeks. Each class was at least two hours in the classroom followed by another two to three hours in the pool. I did three open water check out dives to get a BASIC "C" card.
The current curriculum although adequate(I went through open water advanced last year) is really light on content. I'll bet if you asked a recently trained ow certified diver what an embolisim is, he or she would say "I donno". Diving physics?! Nope.
Scuba diving can be a very safe activity, but you have to know what your doing. Studying on the internet might well work for some people, but nothing can match a good instructor and a good old fashioned chalk board.

 

[MikeFerrara]

We already have more divers plowing through the bottom than swimming above it. they have no clue. The book, a CD or whatever is fine for presenting the abc type info. But, there is more to it than that, when we teach diving we also need to teach and inpress upon our students a philosophy. You do that in person by giving them the rest of the story the fine points, details and insights that you only come by with lots of experience. I expect my students to be familiar with the material in the book/cd when they show up for class. That's because they need that to understand what I'm going to present and what I present is not in the book and it's not on the cd and it never will be because the authors of the materials don't know the stuff. They don't know the stuff because they were not with me on all these hundreds of dives.

If your going to go that rout I say we just hand out cards then teach the ones who come back with question. From what I see instructors are not doing any more for their students in the water than they are in the class room anyway.

 

[Scuba]

As someone mentioned ealier there is no substitute for a good or great instructor. The same can be said of a mentor.

This is an area where the BOW certification agencies have dropped the ball as some have pointed out. Reminds me of the tech/internet bubble in the Nasdaq, where companies were focused on acquiring market share at all cost, without regards to wether they would ever be able to make a profit from these customers. We all know how that ended. Hopefully in this scuba training bubble we will be saved from such a fate by technology and diver's common sense.

From my personal experience it appears to me that a large part of the shortcomings in instructors is the fact that many are new divers themselves, who have passed their cd roms lessons and lectures. They posses minimal training in the profession of teaching, lack a thorough understanding of the principals that make for a good diver, and even lack some basic skills.

I am a fairly new diver myself, but have learned a great deal from this board. I can relate some of the stories told to my own beginner training and what I now see while diving. In my own experience there were just to many basic thing left out of my training.

So my hat goes off to those of you who "know" how to dive and instruct, and do it. And to those of you who share your knowledge and debate diving in this board.

Scuba Board has opened my eyes.

Thank You.

 

[Lawman]

The initial learning experience is better with an instructor. There
is a lot of "hands on" needed with equiptment. It's the training after certification that concerns me. So much is forgotten [especially here in the North in the winter] that without an after certification effort many divers go back in the water having forgotten everything their instructor taught them. I like the PADI
CD Scuba Tune-Up. It brings back the lessons my instructor taught
after a few months off.

 

[xoomboy]

I think that from an agency's standpoint, Internet-based training is one of the best ways to take control over the content being provided to students. How many LDS's are out there that give you the books and videos to take home (Aaron?) and have you come back, take the test, and that's it?

How many instructors out there are like Mike, who actually take the initiative to elaborate on the material and TEACH, instead of reading off the headings and saying quickly "we'll go over all of this when we hit the water". Not many (kudos to you, Mike!)

Keep in mind, many instructors are just like you -- people that learned to dive. And they got into it enough to be at the point where they can show other people how to do it. They're not necessarily teachers or professors that know HOW to educate someone about a subject.

Internet-based training is also very beneficial because of the fact that everyone learns differently. By being able to take the courses at one's own speed and on one's own educational terms, it is actually possible to gain a more comprehensive understanding of the subject matter -- given that the information provided is accurate.

Also, by being available as an electronic resource, it can be easily updated to the latest standards, etc., and the next student to take the course after a revision has been implemented will be adhering to the most-current information. And it would be possible to include more data, theory, and (most importantly, IMHO) MORE FACTS, without needing an instructor to dumb-down the science of it all into some weird kind of easy-speak that everyone in the class will understand.

So, give students a CD-ROM, or even better, make the course available over the Internet. Then, after students have paid the course fee, and have taken the electronic exam and passed, they can move on to the LDS. There they can focus on the skills, and the instructors can focus on teaching HOW to do things, and not get stuck on the basics. Plus, skill training could be scheduled separately from the bookwork, allowing for a more flexible course timeline.

By allowing students to complete the courses online, I think that we would actually see an IMPROVEMENT in the quality of students being "churned out" each month. Students would have the ability to learn the science of diving on their own at their speed, and the LDS would be able to focus on teaching the skills to people who will understand the thinking behind them by the time they get in the water.

Matt

 

[TCDiver1]

detroit diver once bubbled...


Yes, but there's usually a TA or similar around for purposes of questions and discussion during the lecture.

Don't know if it was the same for you but most of the TA's i had could barely speak english. Heck some of the Profs. i had could barely speak english. In those cases it was self study anyway. I think most technical colleges are that way.

 

[Scuba]

I agree with much of what you say Matt, with regards to the potential of a good online course. But this still leaves the other half of the equation in its current state of disrepair. Presumably we could surmise that if the instructors are able to devote most of their time to hands on training they would have more time to teach and coach actual diving practices. But unless the agencies turn out better qualified and trained instructors on the one hand. While requiring a higher degree of demonstrable diving skills of the student who wants a C-card on the other - nothing will change.

Maybe they can implement another C-card. One for Vacation divers, allowed to dive only under professional supervision, and another equivalent to OW today. Just like they have intro scuba dives, why not?

With the instruction time saved by online courses more time could be devoted to actual diving practice by increasing the number of dives. More practice is what all new divers need much more of.

 

[TCDiver1]

xoomboy once bubbled...
Then, after students have paid the course fee, and have taken the electronic exam and passed, they can move on to the LDS.
Matt

I agree with about everything you said except for the above. I have no problem if they do the above but would still want to lecture via manual knowledge reviews, quizes and final test. IMO standardized educational material has a difficult time imparting practical or experience based knowledge. I think that can only, or at least best be done, face to face with the instructor.

 

[xoomboy]

But this still leaves the other half of the equation in its current state of disrepair.

Very true. Following the online BOW course model, you could expand it to encompass not only student training, but also instructor training.

Agencies could mandate that DM/Instructor certifications must be renewed by taking the online course, accompanied by an annual weekend of hands-on dive training.

Toss in a curveball: Make the course material completely available to the public. By showing everyone the "teacher's edition", people would be able to see what the instructor SHOULD be teaching them. Take all the uncertainty out of the picture.

And if it's all done online, kept track of in a central online database, you could have instructor reviews, ratings, etc., all right there at your fingertips. Problem instruction could be pinpointed and corrected, outstanding instruction could be recognized (finally!).

It doesn't seem like this solution would be difficult to implement. It's the kind of work I do on a daily basis (websites, databases, etc.). Sure, it takes time and money, but heck, winter's coming, and if PADI asked me, I'd do it for cheap

Matt

 

[xoomboy]

gedunk once bubbled...


I agree with about everything you said except for the above. I have no problem if they do the above but would still want to lecture via manual knowledge reviews, quizes and final test. IMO standardized educational material has a difficult time imparting practical or experience based knowledge. I think that can only, or at least best be done, face to face with the instructor.

And I agree with manual reviews, quizzes, and of course the final exam. The point of the online course (IMO) would be to increase the diving-related knowledge of the student BEFORE working with the instructor. It's the same concept as watching the video and then working with the instructor, only the student is doing it at their own pace, and the content is much richer.

Do the online course, take the online exam. Do it until you pass and understand the science behind pressure, changes in body chemistry, gas management techniques, etc.

Then, after you've passed, go learn to dive. Work with the instructor face-to-face, play with the equipment, get your trim correct, etc. You'll be much more confident with the gear and the techniques, because you'll understand the reasoning behind it all.

Matt