Divers dying in Cayman 9 last year 4 this year

[mrlipis]

The first was the discussion about the amount of trust new divers place in their first resort dive charter operators and how widely that trust is abused. The discussion was absolutely on target. On my last trip the Blue Hole I was shocked to find out that there was a group of 8 divers on the boat that had been open water certified the day before... What in the world was the charter operator thinking? Day one as a certified diver and lets take you down to 130 feet... Talk about literally and figuratively getting in over your head! Let's face it, this type of turning a blind eye to new diver safety persists only because none of the certifying agencies want to lose market share by being the first to enforce hard and fast experience requirements for advanced diving activities... whether it is deep, drift, wreck or otherwise. It is a classic case of all or none... If one agency enforces standards they lose customers. If they all do it at the same time on a voluntary basis, they are all equal until one starts to bend the standard in order to gain an advantage... then it all crumbles. The only way I can think of to make it really work is for the RSTC and NAUI to agree to a common mandatory set of depth versus certification standards. If anyone else has a better or more practical idea, it would be great to discuss it!

From a passion point, this hits the nail on the head for me. This is the argument that I hold near and dear. For those that don't think there should be a blame game, what's the point if you can't find the common denominator. Someone, something has to take accountability. If we can't pinpoint blame then how do we learn. We certainly need facts vs speculation, but in this case IMO there were at least enough facts to determine blame to both the diver and the operation. Ultimately I think our agency standards need a hard look and those agencies have a duty to be overseeing their world wide operations. A perfect example is a PADI standard that requires a PADI shop to maintain filling equipment, filters inspections etc., yet PADI has no system in place to police those inspections other than the shop telling them it was done.
I don't know the answer to this one, does a PADI shop have a responsibility to hold divers to their certification. Is this expected by PADI? If so, is it policed by PADI? I am not picking on PADI here but as a leader in the industry I used them as an example.

 

[pilot fish]

I agree. If divers are not allowed to fully examine the "why" and "how" of this type of accident, then it just perpetuates. One thing that is abundantly clear, new divers have a very misplaced trust, and dependence, on people that are called DM. Another thing that is clear, do not put people that lead a dive, no matter what you call them, in charge of a dive unless they are trained to at least deal with new divers. Dive Ops must NOT call a person a Dive Master unless they actually hold that certification.

From a passion point, this hits the nail on the head for me. This is the argument that I hold near and dear. For those that don't think there should be a blame game, what's the point if you can't find the common denominator. Someone, something has to take accountability. If we can't pinpoint blame then how do we learn. We certainly need facts vs speculation, but in this case IMO there were at least enough facts to determine blame to both the diver and the operation. Ultimately I think our agency standards need a hard look and those agencies have a duty to be overseeing their world wide operations. A perfect example is a PADI standard that requires a PADI shop to maintain filling equipment, filters inspections etc., yet PADI has no system in place to police those inspections other than the shop telling them it was done.
I don't know the answer to this one, does a PADI shop have a responsibility to hold divers to their certification. Is this expected by PADI? If so, is it policed by PADI? I am not picking on PADI here but as a leader in the industry I used them as an example.

 

[Cajuncru Diver]

Then how do you explain the irrelevant and inflammatory title?

I do not understand the distraction from the "meat" of the post by ranting about the title---Is the title not accurate--if accurate then move on to what matters--if not accurate then make that point.

 

[InTheDrink]

Then how do you explain the irrelevant and inflammatory title?

I do not understand the distraction from the "meat" of the post by ranting about the title---Is the title not accurate--if accurate then move on to what matters--if not accurate then make that point.

Maybe I'm totally misunderstanding, but the volume of the thread had very little to do with the title of the thread IMO. The fact that a diver died certainly added passion, and having an immediate witness as well nas some people that had links into the Op, certainly added fuel.

But I think more than anything else the thread gained its own momentum with regard to the DM role with respect to new and vacation divers.

It would be a shame if Cayman in particular was singled out for this problem because what became clear very early on was general confusion about this particular issue (DM roles/responsibilities).

I've stayed out of spin out threads since then as I felt I'd said my piece and didn't want to add any further noise. I'm sure many others felt the same.

Cheers,
John

 

[diversteve]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

The thread has been split into two threads - one discussing the original accident which can now be found in the Accidents and Incidents thread here: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/accidents-incidents/283416-diver-death-cayman.html

And the other which discusses Divemaster Responsibilities can be found here: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic-scuba-discussions/287029-divemaster-responsibilities.html

This thread is now closed. Posts from this thread appropriate to either discussion have been moved.

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I'd also like to point out that at least 6 staff members have intervened at various times so the threads may not be exactly as remembered.