diving and diabetes

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Hi Diesel298,

What you need to get started can be found here:

Diving and Diabetes
http://www.awoosh.com/Doc Vikingo's Resource Page/Diving_With_Diabetes_Updated.htm

The DAN guidelines link in that piece is not working. These are the ones mentioned in the latest issue of Alert Diver [also make sure to read the moray eel attack piece :wink:]and can be found at:

DAN and UHMS Publish Guidelines for Recreational Diving With Diabetes
http://www.diversalertnetwork.org/news/article.asp?newsid=741

Helpful?

Regards,

DocVikingo
 
ramblinpaul:
This is exactly the type of ignorance we as diabetics need to combat.

Help me understand why you think this is serious? What have you used for the basis of your opinion was it, incidents, facts, first hand knowledge of diving with diabetics?

Or is it an: "I don't know much (anything) about diving with diabetes so instead of learning, I should totally avoid the scenario".


Just like to say I don't mean to offend anyone but having type 1 is very serious matter, being medic train back home (netherlands) i've seen type 1 patients get in very serious car accidents or work related accidents (falling down stairs,etc) all due to there diabetic status, and some people can no even hold DL if there type 1 and I know for sure your not aloud to work in the commercial diving field if you have type 1 or I belive even type 2, if something happens UW while diving your putting everyone else at risk, etc. This is JMO for type 1 status, if you have type 2 then I think there isn't much of a problem other then letting everyone know your type 2. Good luck and be safe.

Always descending,
c.h.
 
Not all Type I diabetics are brittle -- many are well controlled and very stable, particularly if they are disciplined in their management of their disease. However, that discussion is not pertinent to this thread. The OP was diagnosed with Type II, which is a different disease in pathophysiology and management.
 
What are the rules with type 1 in the u.s.a. can you still get a OW cert and if so are there certain guidelines they have to follow maybe only shallow water only, etc?

Always descending,
C.h.
 
Knight:
i've seen type 1 patients get in very serious car accidents or work related accidents (falling down stairs,etc) all due to there diabetic status

I've seen people over 55 years of age have heart attacks. And those over 55 are at a greater risk of having heart attacks than those under 55. Does that mean we should stop those 55+ from diving because they might have a heart attack while diving?

Sorry, but I think your reasoning is flawed. Just because some "uncontrolled" diabetics have difficulty shouldn't mean all diabetics should be percluded from participating in activities. In fact you state it yourself:

Knight:
and some people can no even hold DL if there type 1

some being the operative word, and those some are the ones who do not control their diabetes, and have lost the privilege to drive. The thousands of other who do control their diabetes have DL's just like everyone else. I think good controlled Type 1 diabetics should have the privilege to dive.

Knight:
What are the rules with type 1 in the u.s.a. can you still get a OW cert and if so are there certain guidelines they have to follow maybe only shallow water only, etc?

With proper medical clearance, and attention to their condition we can dive unimpeded, with no restrictions. I'm currently a Rescue Diver, and will eventually become a Dive Master, perhaps an Instructor.

TSandM:
However, that discussion is not pertinent to this thread.

Agreed, if anyone would like to argue the merits of diabetes and diving then start a new thread and I'm happy to post until the cows come home........:D
 
Knight:
...having type 1 is very serious matter...i've seen type 1 patients get in very serious car accidents or work related accidents (falling down stairs,etc) all due to there diabetic status
Being diabetic may have been the cause or contributor to the injuries your patients suffered but let us be clear here: you get responsible diabetics and you get those that are irresponsible. The responsible ones pay serious attention to their glucometer readings, take readings regularly, exercise often, eat healthy diets, stay away from sugars (including alcohol), see their diabetic doctors often, see their endocrinologists often also, don't allow themselves to be pressured into diving by anyone if they are not 110% sure their sugars are okay, you see where I'm headed?

I know diabetics that go out binge drinking with their mates every Friday evening, get drunk as coots, and run sugars I can only call insane. I've seen them leave their insulin in their cars, parked in the sunny parking lot where the insulin can denatures because of the heat, and then hear them saying without batting an eyelid, "Nah it's fine!" These kind of diabetics are the ones who run extremely high risks of getting themselves wrapped up in car wrecks around traffic lights or other cars on the road, which is when you arrive on the scene no doubt.

Now look at going on your average dive holiday; take a good, slow look around you and notice for a minute what other non-diabetic divers do. They often party like it's 99c a shot and tomorrow morning they pitch up at the dive briefing hung over, barely able to stand upright and figure out which side of the cylinder is up, right before they head off to do that 37m(120ft) dive they've got their names chalked up for on the dive planner board. These are the kind of divers that the DM almost inevitably has to go fetch from depths past 42m(138ft) because it didn't cross their fried minds to keep a look at their guages or even think about considering the complications of getting narc'ed.

Are these kind of divers not also absolute risks? Accidents waiting to happen?

TSandM:
Not all Type I diabetics are brittle...
This I can attest to, my wife is Type 1 and I've seen her spend 14 hours with me in the pool doing qualifying swims and underwater stress tests on our Divemaster courses when most other non-diabetic DM students break down crying saying they can't hack it anymore. I'll take my wife as a backup with me every day because I know what she's capable of, diabetes or no diabetes.

Just for the record, your comments did not offend me in any way, but I do think that generalizing to include all Type 1 diabetics, and calling them unsafe divers is unfair and IMHO inaccurate.
:coffee:
 
Hi Knight,

The guidelines for all divers with diabetes put out by Divers Alert Network, Y-Scuba, Undersea and Hyperbaric Medical Society and the British Sub-Aqua Club can be found the articles linked in my post above.

Regards,

DocVikingo
 
Knight:
What are the rules with type 1 in the u.s.a. can you still get a OW cert and if so are there certain guidelines they have to follow maybe only shallow water only, etc?

Always descending,
C.h.

I am type 1 as I stated earlier and I am certified. I am one of the ones that aren't "brittle". (That's a good one TSandM) I play tournament volleyball for 2-3 days at a stretch. If you've never played in any sports tournaments, the days generally are 10-12 hours long. So far I haven't died. Of course I have to monitor myself just as all of the other participants do. I just have to monitor blood glucose level in addition to hydration. Hmmmm, those are two of the things I monitor when diving, too.

The significantly <1% you may have dealt with were not in good control and thus ran into problems. I bet they aren't the majority of diabetics, however. There are millions of diabetics. There are millions of car wrecks. Does that mean that it's the millions of diabetics that are in all the car wrecks? My guess is that diabetics in car wrecks occur in more or less exactly the same proportion as diabetics in the general population. I'm guessing the same is true for diving accidents.
 
Last year DAN and Duke University, along with others, held a medical academic workshop on Diabetes and diving.

You can get the entire PROCEEDINGS of papers presented from DAN, order from the website. However, it is academic papers that most people won't follow; and will cost you $30.00 (including shipping) for 165 +/- pages.

They boiled the consensus guidelines down to a one-pager that you can download in PDF format from this link:
http://www.diversalertnetwork.org/news/download/SummaryGuidelines.pdf
If you, or a loved one, are diabetic and dive, or if you are an instructor or divemaster who might deal with diabetic students, I strongly encourage you to download the one-page PDF on the above link!

Recommendations for managing glucose levels prior to, immediately post, and for the next 12 - 24 hours are included. Testing is recommended for an hour pre-dive, and glucose levels are recommended to be 150 (and less than 300) mG-DL, and stable or rising pre-dive. Those that are familiar with these values recognize that the glucose pre-dive is recommended to be slightly high and rising immediately before the exertion of a dive. This is to minimize the risk of hypoglycemia during the dive.

Clearly, any major complications along with uncontrolled diabetes would be a contra-indication for diving, such as ischemia, amputation, coronary disease, or stroke.

Consensus for both insulin-dependent and non-insulin dependent diabetics was that every individual should be individually evaluated. This is contrary to the early 1990's (and before) attitude of blanket contraindication, and shows that the diving medicine orthodoxy is coming around.

Generally, the real concern is now about hypoglycemia (low blood sugar), although hyper-glycemia can be problematic. There was no evidence that DCS was any increased risk.

There should be no recent (although how recent is recent was debatable) occurances of severe (hospitalized, or intervention by another party) hypoglycemia; and no cases of hypoglycemic unawareness. Nor should diabetics be involved in cave diving, due to difficulty in reaching the surface in case of hypoglycemia.

Insulin-dependent diabetics should not be diving, and all diving diabetics should carry glucose and have access to same at the surface.

Some posters above have suggested things like "I'll do what I want, regardless." Keep in mind that unless you are solo-diving (NOT a good idea for diabetics) you are also responsible for a buddy. That buddy's safety, and their abilities, will be tested and at risk if the diabetic does have a severe hypoglycemic episode.

Probably the most controversial issue to come out of the workshop was a possible recommendation with regard to diving professionals. Consensus seemed to lean toward diabetes, controlled or otherwise, as an absolute contraindication for diving professionals. There was an anecdote about one instructor who was able to intervene with a distressed student because he was able to recognize the symptoms of hypoglycemia (himself being diabetic). When his employer commended him on his actions, the instructor admitted how he was so experienced with the topic. Instructor was summarily fired the next day as medically unfit.

Issue goes to ADA, the "Americans with Disabilities Act" and similar laws in most other western countries. Is diabetes a disability? If so, can a person be terminated from employment, even diving employment, for having it?
Instructors and divemasters as diabetics were contra-indicated, but not absolutely (yet?). Commercial divers were still determined to be absolutely contra-indicated for medical (but who knows about legal...) reasons.

Outcome consensus of the workshop were recommendations only, they had no enforcement authority, but expect some (if not all) certification agencies to pay attention.
 
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