DM blew me off

[nimoh]

That is called Discover Scuba.

How on earth do you know what either party was thinking in the Miami accident?

I think he meant misconceptions they possibly had...cut him a little slack

 

[brnt999]

That is called Discover Scuba.

Open your mind a bit--there is Discover Scuba and OW "you are on your own". So an experience in between

How on earth do you know what either party was thinking in the Miami accident?

If you read the news reports there are comments from people that were there, that there were signs she was inexperienced but it didnt register with them at the time. She obviously was in over her head and unless she was suicidal she wouldnt choose to be in that situation.

 

[wilde100]

Just to follow on to OP's point about being aware of sucking his tank down to 10bar, gentle reminder to all divers who lead dives, and those who are dive buddies to others... it's not uncommon for a diver who's low on air (50bar) to consume his remaining air in a flash. Especially common for those new to diving or for those returning to diving after a loooong break.

Their increased anxiety at being LOA leads to an increased air consumption rate - not slower. Being shallow doesn't resolve this problem. So a LOA situation can quickly evolve to OOA / CESA. The usual environmental stresses like current / poor viz exacerbate the situation. Please do take extra precaution for them.

 

[InTheDrink]

Just to follow on to OP's point about being aware of sucking his tank down to 10bar, gentle reminder to all divers who lead dives, and those who are dive buddies to others... it's not uncommon for a diver who's low on air (50bar) to consume his remaining air in a flash. Especially common for those new to diving or for those returning to diving after a loooong break.

Their increased anxiety at being LOA leads to an increased air consumption rate - not slower. Being shallow doesn't resolve this problem. So a LOA situation can quickly evolve to OOA / CESA. The usual environmental stresses like current / poor viz exacerbate the situation. Please do take extra precaution for them.

Thanks for that thoughtful post, I agree although the shallower the better.

On a side note for DMs/instructors: it might also be useful to understand that a lot of divers use up a lot of gas in the first 5-10 mins. Frequently 25%. Not that I'm any expert but I personably have found that putting ones face in the water prior to submerging for a minute or two helps with that initial heavy gas consumption.

John

 

[nimoh]

Just to follow on to OP's point about being aware of sucking his tank down to 10bar, gentle reminder to all divers who lead dives, and those who are dive buddies to others... it's not uncommon for a diver who's low on air (50bar) to consume his remaining air in a flash. Especially common for those new to diving or for those returning to diving after a loooong break.

Their increased anxiety at being LOA leads to an increased air consumption rate - not slower. Being shallow doesn't resolve this problem. So a LOA situation can quickly evolve to OOA / CESA. The usual environmental stresses like current / poor viz exacerbate the situation. Please do take extra precaution for them.

coupled with that, it is my understanding that pressure guages are notoriously inaccurate when pressure gets that low. Don't ask me to back that statement up, I can't.

 

[InTheDrink]

coupled with that, it is my understanding that pressure guages are notoriously inaccurate when pressure gets that low. Don't ask me to back that statement up, I can't.

Nope can't either but you're right.

 

[brnt999]

Nope can't either but you're right.

My memory of this dive is becoming clearer, and in the interests of painting the whole picture I will say this. This was a fairly large boat we were on and they carried AL100 tanks. The DM figured, rightly so, that since I used up my AL80 so fast I should use a larger tank. Also,after the first dive, we were talking and I told him that I was using more weight than I had used during my ow class and that I felt more stable with the extra weight. As I was standing in line waiting to jump into the water he walked up to me and stuck a 4 pound weight in each of the pockets of my bcd. I didnt think too much about it at the time. I am pretty sure he thought if more weight makes me stable, then even more weight will make me even more stable. I don't know the exact numbers but I am pretty sure an AL100 tank weighs a fair amount more than an AL80 tank. Anyway when I got in the water with all the extra weight I felt like a lead ball--I felt like I was carrying a rock around on my back. Also, one of the things I do remember from my class is that you should start your dive against the current and finish it with the current. On this dive it was the exact opposite. We spent the last 20 minutes of the dive kicking against a strong current. I am pretty sure one of the reasons I used my air up so fast is I was carrying too much weight and kicking against a current.

 

[Qnape]

I agree - a year or so ago I was tooling around just under the area of a ladder to a dive boat, having completed my safety stop at about 625psi; I then got distracted shooting photos of barracuda and other divers that were also hanging under the boat, looked down and my air integrated Suunto Cobra showed 275 psi, then suddenly 0. I did a classic double take and stared at the computer for a moment or two as the reg still breathed normally. Needless to say I climbed the ladder and have never tried such a foolish thing again. 10 bar or 145 psi would also read as 0 I am sure. That by itself might cause panic for a lot of newer divers, regardless of still having (some) air in the tank.

 

[diverrex]

You know, it is really easy to beat on new divers about the things they don't know, and the questions they don't ask. But when I look back at my own training and realize what I've learned since, I realize I didn't ask many of the right questions (and I'm an inveterate question-asker). It is a case of not knowing what you don't know....

The "you don't know what you don't know" is a big potential problem for new divers. When I look back at my initial training my wife and I did class and pool in CA then headed to Belize for vacation and to do the OW dives. I did no research, we simply walked up the beach and asked the shops who wanted to finish our training. At that time I really didn't realize that there could be so much difference between shops and instructors. I didn't even realize then the difference between cattle boats and six packs. Luckily we stumbled upon a very good instructor at a six pack op. Back then I really needed a good op but didn't realize it. Now 7 years and 400+ dives later I could probably manage the diving with a bad op but I research like crazy before I dive with anyone.

 

[InTheDrink]

My memory of this dive is becoming clearer, and in the interests of painting the whole picture I will say this. This was a fairly large boat we were on and they carried AL100 tanks. The DM figured, rightly so, that since I used up my AL80 so fast I should use a larger tank. Also,after the first dive, we were talking and I told him that I was using more weight than I had used during my ow class and that I felt more stable with the extra weight. As I was standing in line waiting to jump into the water he walked up to me and stuck a 4 pound weight in each of the pockets of my bcd. I didnt think too much about it at the time. I am pretty sure he thought if more weight makes me stable, then even more weight will make me even more stable. I don't know the exact numbers but I am pretty sure an AL100 tank weighs a fair amount more than an AL80 tank. Anyway when I got in the water with all the extra weight I felt like a lead ball--I felt like I was carrying a rock around on my back. Also, one of the things I do remember from my class is that you should start your dive against the current and finish it with the current. On this dive it was the exact opposite. We spent the last 20 minutes of the dive kicking against a strong current. I am pretty sure one of the reasons I used my air up so fast is I was carrying too much weight and kicking against a current.

Dude you're like my perfect case study. I abhor over weighting. I'm a little fat an wear 2kgs (5lbs) with a 5mm semi dry. With doubles I wear no weights wet. With a dry suit couple of kg's.

Overweighting makes diving fairly hard. I've seen so many guides instructors whatever you call them overload people some of whom probably need no weight cos so skinny and 3mm shorty.

My pet hate.