Do Europeans tip DMs?

[Ste Wart]

I'm talking primarily about US-based companies here, or companies that reap the largest amount of their business from American divers. And when I look at being "expected" to fork out a $500-$700 tip for a liveaboard for me and my wife, it becomes a factor when planning a trip. And it's not just the money ... it's the expectation of the tip, that becomes a factor.

This amazed me. My ex used to work on the Utila aggressor. She was paid $200 for a 7 day charter, still not bad for an Instructor, but she and the rest of the crew would then coin in $500 tips for every charter. Which would pretty much make it the highest paying dive job in the world!
But still after paying over 2 grand for the charter and whatever for flights, excess baggage for dive equipment, taxes for diving Utila/Roatan. I think I would be a bit miffed that I was be told in the brochure how much I should tip.

Probably because I'm English though

 

[scjoe]

Undercurrent did a series on tipping a number of years ago that was quite interesting. It may be available on-line.

In general, I think you need to take the “When in Rome” approach. My exception to this rule is that I don’t tip operations that cater primarily to Europeans or Australians. If they can provide service to them without a tip, they can do the same for me. It gets a little trickier when the boat is say half full of Australians, but in general I would not tip in that situation either.

If you are going to tip, it helps to have some idea at what rate the locals tip. A $100 meal in the US might result in tip of $15-$17, whereas in Indonesia a local might only tip $1 to $2. The standard American method of tipping when applied to liveaboards can result in paying crew members well above the average daily wage for the area.

 

[annlaur]

[…] not speaking about the dive industry here, I've been to many places in Europe, places where tipping is not part of the culture, where the service has been downright rude, IMHO. Maybe it's cultural expectations, I don't know. But does that mean I have to tip in order to "buy" civility, a look in the eye, and something other than a scowl? Maybe it's just that I walked like a tourist, looked like a tourist, and quacked like a tourist. Being pleasant and respectful to the person serving me (a given) didn't seem to change the equation. By contrast, in SE Asia, service is delivered by polite, humble, smiling people, almost without exception.

I believe you're right, it's all about cultural differences and expectations.

In France, for example, a waiter is basically expected to seat you, take your order, serve your food, and bring your check (you need to explicitely ask for it, or you will wait a looooong time).
Likewise, a taxi driver is expected to drive you from point A to point B.
Putting on a happy face and making small talk is not part of their job requirement.
As a matter of fact, many customers from the upper classes will frown if you try to make small talk while serving them; it's considered unprofessional.

Perhaps that mentality comes from the times when people in the Old Continent had servants who had to work discreetly and make themselves almost invisible.

Or perhaps it's something else. When Disneyland Paris opened years ago, people here were chocked to find out that the employees were required to smile constantly. For many French people, such a demand was unacceptable as they felt people were not smiling robots and that the company infringed upon the employees' basic rights by forcing them to be hypocrits and express a happiness they didn't necessarily feel.

I can easily see why an American in Paris would feel offended by the "coldness" of many professional waiters (not talking about the real obnoxious jerks).

The good thing about France is that tipping is by no means mandatory.
If you don't like your waiter, don't tip him.
If you like him, leave the tip you want and thank him personally.
If he's a total jerk, leave a 1 cent coin just as you're leaving the place… that's an insult !

The one place where I would disagree is the part about tipping in order to "buy" civility. I would never tip someone in order for them to be nice to me.

 

[highdesert]

Well, what can I say ... being one of those strange Americans, I'd rather trade smiles and a "hello" with the waiter than give stone faces to each other ...

 

[vladimir]

Undercurrent did a series on tipping a number of years ago that was quite interesting. It may be available on-line.

Yes, good article:

Tipping on Dive Trips: Part I: Undercurrent 05/2008 (may require subscription)

What Percentage Do Your Fellow Divers Tip?

While the results to our survey aren’t statistically significant, more than half say they tip 10 percent of the dive costs, whether it’s a liveaboard or shore-based operation. Mike Bowden (London, England) urges tipping divers keep it at no more than that. “Otherwise too tempting for boats to start cutting wages and bumping up tips.” An additional 38 percent of divers view 15 percent as the norm, while 8 percent use 20 percent. Only 3 percent say they never tip.

I'm not sure what the survey's methodology was, but I'd guess that a call to volunteer your tipping habits would tend to attract big tippers and tip exaggerators. And a survey of Undercurrent's readership would tend to attract Americans.

 

[highdesert]

What is the "dive cost" on a liveaboard? We've done trips that covered 800 miles, and there's no way I'm going to tip on fuel costs. So how do you break out "dive cost?"

 

[Kern]

I'm an Australian;

When in the 3rd world I tip the locals individually, the Euro types get nothing.

When in America, I realise the minimum wage isn't a living wage, & that it's considered normal not to pay wait staff even the minimum, because they'll earn tips. So I tip everyone, but I'm not putting 10% of a $3000 dive trip into the box though.

In Oz, everyone gets a minimum wage, about $16 an hour. Depending on how high end the restaurant, good wait staff will probably be paid more than the minimum, & at the top end of the scale, they'll get a lot of tips as well. If the staff at a dive op told me they earn less than the minimum wage, & expect tips, I'd call them scabs, give them directions as to where to go, & instructions on what they should do when they get there. I don't tip anyone in Oz. People fought long & hard to ensure everyone got a living wage, I don't like people who put that at risk.

 

[ptyx]

In places where service is included in the bill (most services in most of Europe), tipping is minimal or reserved for service above and beyond expectations.

One would expect travelers to educate themselves on the local customs and expectations when they travel... but it's not always easy and a lot of people just don't care. (Just try to tip in a British pub for a confusing experience).

If you can, being clear (but polite) about your expectations in advance (booking time rather than payment time!) never hurts:

"Note to international travelers: service is not included, a tip of x is customary if you've enjoyed your dive, y being appropriate for excellent service and z for a poor experience (please leave us a comment in that case so we can improve in the future!)".

 

[2 Big 2 Fail]

Well, what can I say ... being one of those strange Americans, I'd rather trade smiles and a "hello" with the waiter than give stone faces to each other ...

Getting a bit off-topic, but it's a matter of propriety. What's appropriate in the U.S. may not be appropriate in, for instance, France. There is a distinct difference between normal behavior for waiters. I rather like the more common French conduct, which is unobtrusive. One may come to have a warmer relationship with a French waiter, but it has more of a feeling of a mutual privilege extended to and from a regular and appreciated customer, in other words, an evolution from one entirely professional relationship to another. There is nothing in this that mandates an flat, unsmiling aspect, but it's very far from the forced, "Hi! I'm Bruce, and I'll be your waiter tonight." I do not wish to meet or get to know Bruce, nor to I want him to become one of my party.

The proprieties in France call for you to greet the proprietor of a shop upon entering. A simple, "Bonjour, madame." is sufficient. Nor is it decent behavior to loiter in the shop, "just looking." (Unless a sign in the front window invites entry just to look.) So you can hoorah an American waiter but ignore an American shopkeeper and be in line while the same conduct elsewhere marks you as a boor.

 

[Belce]

Tipping is a British practice where the cost of the service has a conditional element based on how well I am impressed with your service. Being a British practice is why it is also a generally univerisial practice.