Do Europeans tip DMs?

[Kern]

Picked up on this one - especially the first part - When in the third world... Although, as I said, I don't expect tips but they are nice, there is often the attitude that the native staff are somehow more worthy of a bit of extra cash because they earn less, and the "Euro types" must be rich kids on a jolly....

Well, it is often true that the locals are paid less than the foreign staff, but then it is often the case that their living expenses are less. I couldn't rent a room in the local staff accommodation if I wanted to; they don't have to pay several hundred Euros per year for work permits and agency fees; don't have to pay to maintain or replace expensive dive equipment, get "special prices" in certain shops and markets.

Also - when we talk about "locals" - do we mean the DMs or the guys hauling the tanks and driving the cars and boats? Our native instructors are paid exactly the same as the European staff, so that doesn't make sense either. Also, for the record, in the places I've worked, the instructors and DMs do far more in terms of actual workload than the people who do the background stuff.

On the other hand, I wholly agree that people who ask for tips up front are breaking some kind of hidden code of practice. Might as well just charge the customer more and pay more wages - that seems a little more honourable than trying to force people into doing it before quality of service has been established. We are expressly forbidden for soliciting personal tips, although I will often encourage a whip-round for the boat crews and we have a tip box for the local staff which is, invariably, well stocked.

Work hard, provide a good service, get tipped - or not - depending on your locale.

Cheers

C.

Locals are locals. The majority don't have the option to go anywhere else to work.

I don't care how much it costs a Euro type for living expenses, fees, permits or gear. I don't care what their work load is. They made the choice to go there & work, their wages, expenses, & job description is their affair.

There are other reasons I tip the locals & not the Euro's, but as this is a dive forum, I won't go into them.

 

[Terry2Puds]

I was in Key West in May last year and it was expected to give a tip at the end of the day. Well I would have if we had got good service. It was pointed out to the dive guide that the drop tank regs were faulty. What did he do? Change them - No, he put the same tank with the faulty regs back in for the second dive. Tip this person, you must be joking.

We later went up to Boynton and did a few days diving. Service was excellent. No expectation of a tip. So guess what we gave one.

When diving in the UK we give tips as and when it is deserved. Not just because they have done their job.

Just got back from two weeks liveaboard diving in the Maldives. Gave tips to the crew and the dive guides as they derserved it.

 

[String]

There are several categories.

There are people that do their job without fuss and dont expect tips (but they're welcome)
There are people that do their job and do expect tips
then there are people that refuse to do the job they're paid to do unless you pay them extra on top.

 

[Crowley]

Locals are locals. The majority don't have the option to go anywhere else to work.

I don't care how much it costs a Euro type for living expenses, fees, permits or gear. I don't care what their work load is. They made the choice to go there & work, their wages, expenses, & job description is their affair.

There are other reasons I tip the locals & not the Euro's, but as this is a dive forum, I won't go into them.

Opinions are like the holes in your backside - everybody has one. It's great to have a completely uninformed opinion and I respect the fact that some people are, indeed, self-confessed misanthropes. That's all fine by me.

But to say the locals have no choices? There are always choices. The locals choose to work here because it's a good job and easy money - we, the foreign people, choose to work here because we love what we do. So - passion or pocket book? As you like.

I am not complaining about my lot, nor what I earn or what I am tipped - this is a post about whether or not DMs and instructors be tipped for their work, not whether a person should be tipped dependent on their nationality or colour of their skin.

Everybody is entitled to their xenophobia but the act of tipping a "native" simply because they are natives is actually an insult to those people - and they know it.

With respect

Crowley

 

[mjatkins]

Locals are locals. The majority don't have the option to go anywhere else to work.

I don't care how much it costs a Euro type for living expenses, fees, permits or gear. I don't care what their work load is. They made the choice to go there & work, their wages, expenses, & job description is their affair.

There are other reasons I tip the locals & not the Euro's, but as this is a dive forum, I won't go into them.

You may also consider that in many places we all share in the tips. If you tip the boat captain because he is "local", but not me because I am caucasian, you are actually taking money out of his pocket. He will be required to share your tip with me, but I will have none from you to share back.

 

[Kern]

Opinions are like the holes in your backside - everybody has one. It's great to have a completely uninformed opinion and I respect the fact that some people are, indeed, self-confessed misanthropes. That's all fine by me.

But to say the locals have no choices? There are always choices. The locals choose to work here because it's a good job and easy money - we, the foreign people, choose to work here because we love what we do. So - passion or pocket book? As you like.

I am not complaining about my lot, nor what I earn or what I am tipped - this is a post about whether or not DMs and instructors be tipped for their work, not whether a person should be tipped dependent on their nationality or colour of their skin.

Everybody is entitled to their xenophobia but the act of tipping a "native" simply because they are natives is actually an insult to those people - and they know it.

With respect

Crowley

Quite obviously, this is not all fine with you.

 

[Kern]

You may also consider that in many places we all share in the tips. If you tip the boat captain because he is "local", but not me because I am caucasian, you are actually taking money out of his pocket. He will be required to share your tip with me, but I will have none from you to share back.

Looks like no one gets a tip then.

 

[mjatkins]

Looks like no one gets a tip then.

That is your choice to make. If you come and dive at the shop where I work you won't be treated any differently from the folks who do tip for good service. Hopefully by the time you leave you will appreciate the good service enough to want to reward it evenly and equally amongst those who provide it.

 

[vladimir]

Everybody is entitled to their xenophobia but the act of tipping a "native" simply because they are natives is actually an insult to those people - and they know it.

With respect

Crowley

I agree, and it's hard for me to see the motivation for selectively tipping that way. What I have seen, however, is the opposite: western staff getting, say, $50 each at the end of a trip, and Indonesian staff sharing $50. Tipping shouldn't be an angst-ridden exercise where I have to re-examine my views on colonialism and affirmative action before I can dole out the cash. Ideally, I would give $500 to the captain at the end of a trip and he would have a fair method of dividing it. Unfortunately, I have learned that it often does not get divvied at all, much less fairly, so I no longer do it that way. Now I individually give the dive staff a certain amount each, the other crew a certain lesser amount, and I don't agonize over it. National origin is not a criterion, but ability to communicate with me in English might be.

 

[Belmont]

I saw a sign in a tour bus in Las Vegas that said: "TIPPING IS NOT A CITY IN CHINA"

I worked as a waiter and a cab driver when I was a student, I am always careful to properly tip those that give me good service.

In some tourist places I even do it in a visible way and jokingly saying: "Here Jos, this will help put your kid trough university" All this to show some retards in the group that the guy earns minimum wages and needs his tips.

In Europe I will tip Bellhops, Cabby's if they were nice to me and tour guides if they showed interest in their presentations.